Bump Stocks not being turned in.

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I would not be surprised if a (now-contraband) bump stock was used in a future shooting. What would the response be then? To make them doubly illegal?

There are probably thousands of bump stocks out there, now illegal, and therefore in practice totally unregulated. And they are in the hands of felons (as newly defined).

It would have been better from a policy point of view to have an amnesty, put them on the machine gun registry, and henceforth keep track of them.
 
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Occam's Razor simply suggests the simplest theory, which explains the phenomenon, is most likely the correct one. It doesn't "prove" it's correct. I agree it's speculation, but OTOH, I see no reason to .... "speculate" .... that the shooter was not using bumpstock equipped AR rifles ...

I'm not entirely sure that applies, as Occam presumes a single, generally stable, data set.
Which does not exist in this case.

Instead, we have a narrative, mostly ginned up by collating the varying (and sometimes widely divergent) news stories. That narrative goes, a nutjob, with some sort of evil gun went and shot up a crowd.

We have hearsay about a cache of weapons, but the description of those are by people who can't tell the difference between an S&W snubbie and an Ak-47. There are just too many gaps and guesses and contradictory "eyewitness" accounts to amount to much more detail than "nut case shot at crowd from hotel."

From the audio, that sounded like an RPD, particularly with belt drag from being shot w/o an AG. That's just my opinion, and does not even equal 2¢.

However, everything beyond nutjob shoots into crowd from hotel is speculative at this point.
 
Yep not surprised . CA banned mags that can hold more then 10 rounds . Not just banned them but required the owner to turn them in , destroy or sell out of state . At this time there is no record of anyone turning in a mag that holds more then ten rounds or anyone that has said they destroyed or sold there mags .

What's the saying some are will to say , "come and take it" ! ???

This might have something to do with that....

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...ia-magazine-ban-violates-the-second-amendment
 
''We still don't actually know that any were uses in LV. All we have is press speculation and hearsay. LVMetro has been mute on what was collected on scene. Rare for LVM.''

The truth about the weapons used in the Las Vegas massacre is out there, if you look. The report writers and shrinks always search for a motive. No one knows the perps motive. Some folks are simply murderous and evil.

In Room 32-135 police found numerous AR-15 rifles with bump stocks and some AR-10 rifles. See page 41 (Evidence Recovery) of the Police Preliminary Investigative Report:

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1_October_FIT_Report_01-18-2018_Footnoted.pdf.
 
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I have a question , Considering the trigger group parts in a semi auto vs a full auto. What part of that trigger group is your finger suppose to be a substitute for?
 
I am asking because I have a bit more to say or maybe something to add to the thread, but I need that info.
Thanks
 
The firearm can only fire one shot per pull of the trigger or it’s a machine gun.

A Gatling gun is ok if you have to crank it by hand.

One shot on pull and another upon release is also OK.

The ban is and extension of what they did when they reversed their decision on the Adkins accelerator, AW Sim and other devices that were essentially the same thing as the bump stocks except they used springs to shove the rifle back into the trigger. So the only action one needed was a single pull and recoil/springs would continue fire. What the slidefire did was eliminate the spring so the shooters other arm had to push the firearm back into the trigger finger. So it was a human action that caused each individual trigger pull. Now that they made that “device” illegal, all it takes is someone that doesn’t have a rectangle cranial inversion to point out that you don’t need a “device” to obtain the results.

Another though I had had years ago was, what about a device that didn’t pull a trigger at all or even help pull the trigger? A device that actually pushed your finger off the trigger. The new “increase rate of fire” part would also preclude something like that as well.
 
The problem with this article, is that it starts by assuming most or all gun owners have them. I think you will find that not to be the case.

Statistically speaking, you could plot this on a bell curve like so:

If you poll 5000 gun owners, 100 randomly selected from every state, it's a safe assumption that 3000+ of those gun owners will have never SEEN a bump stock, and of the remaining 2000, maybe 1000 have used one, and 500 or fewer actually OWN one.

I agree with your statement but even go farther. By your example you think 20% of gun owners have used a bump stock and 10% owned one?

Maybe I just run with a different gun crowd but I think even that is highly exaggerated. I say that because out working in the world along with doing gun leather I've easily talked to hundreds of gun owners but only a handful that probably have every used one.

In fact I wonder if 20% of gun owners have ever even fired an AR15 at all.
 
In fact I wonder if 20% of gun owners have ever even fired an AR15 at all.
The AR is the most popular long gun in the country and has been for some time. I think it's quite likely that well over 20% of gun owners have fired one, although I agree that the number that have used a bump stock is far lower.

Maybe I just run with a different gun crowd
I'm sure you do. Many (probably most) gun owners don't use leather holsters any more, and the ones that do are also more likely to be the ones who don't own more "modern" style rifles. I use the term "modern" only because many people seem to want to call it that, even though the design is over 60 years old.
 
Among my friends (a limited sample, to be sure), I don't know anyone who has (had) a bump stock. Several, however, have real machine guns.
 
The AR is the most popular long gun in the country and has been for some time. I think it's quite likely that well over 20% of gun owners have fired one, although I agree that the number that have used a bump stock is far lower.

I'm sure you do. Many (probably most) gun owners don't use leather holsters any more, and the ones that do are also more likely to be the ones who don't own more "modern" style rifles. I use the term "modern" only because many people seem to want to call it that, even though the design is over 60 years old.

OK I get the impression you think I'm old fashioned (which I am) and only run with an old traditional crowd. Well maybe I do but encounter all kinds of people in my real job and can read real world statistics.

Most popular gun for a long time yet that's for one model made by numerous manufactures. How does that compare to ALL bolt action guns of different model numbers, etc? Who knows but it winds up not being the overwhelming sales percentage many people want to think they are. Most gun owners I speak to are those that you aren't sure if they are even gun owners and consist of just a handgun or three for home protection or handed down from grandpa or whatever.

To back up my thoughts are you aware that about half of all guns in America are owned by about 14% of gun owners? That's 130 million guns owned by 3% of the American people. Estimates are all over the place but a middle of the road average estimates 10 million or so AR15s in America and that is BATFEs number from 2018. Yes that is almost one for every gun owner but with ALL of the 260 million guns, AR15s being only 3-5% of them, and half of them being owned by 14% of All gun owners I stand by my thoughts.
 
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Well maybe I do but encounter all kinds of people in my real job and can read real world statistics.

Most popular gun for a long time yet that's for one model made by numerous manufactures. How does that compare to ALL bolt action guns of different model numbers, etc?
Here's some real world stats for 2012: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/afmer2012finalwebreport17jan2014pdf/download According to this article: https://dailycaller.com/2014/02/22/...-record-in-2012-ar-15-production-up-over-100/ which got it's data from that list, 27.5% of all rifles produced in 2012 were AR's and that does not include the ones made by Remington, Bushmaster and Ruger. Given those facts, it's safe to say that around a third of all rifles made in the US, at least in recent years, are AR's. I find it improbable that less than 20% of gun owners have fired a type of weapon that makes up a third or more of the new rifle market. There's no way to conclusively prove any of this, thankfully. If there were, that would mean that someone is keeping a comprehensive list of firearms owners and the guns they have, which is a very bad thing. The primary point of the 2A is for every citizen to be armed and trained with the same weapons as the military. The AR is as close as we can legally get to that responsibility at this point so maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
 
IMHO the bump stock is not a machine gun, but attach it to the rest of the gun, ad a finger and it becomes a machine gun.
 
Here's some real world stats for 2012: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/afmer2012finalwebreport17jan2014pdf/download According to this article: https://dailycaller.com/2014/02/22/...-record-in-2012-ar-15-production-up-over-100/ which got it's data from that list, 27.5% of all rifles produced in 2012 were AR's and that does not include the ones made by Remington, Bushmaster and Ruger. Given those facts, it's safe to say that around a third of all rifles made in the US, at least in recent years, are AR's. I find it improbable that less than 20% of gun owners have fired a type of weapon that makes up a third or more of the new rifle market. There's no way to conclusively prove any of this, thankfully. If there were, that would mean that someone is keeping a comprehensive list of firearms owners and the guns they have, which is a very bad thing. The primary point of the 2A is for every citizen to be armed and trained with the same weapons as the military. The AR is as close as we can legally get to that responsibility at this point so maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

We'll have to agree to disagree, still half of ALL guns are owned by only 14% of ALL gun owners and much of all these new gun sales are going to those collectors and hoarders. Many people that I have met that has one AR15 has several of them and even with all that very few owned a bump stock. I still think the estimate of 5% with a bump stock is high. Thats why I even entered this conversation, have a nice day.
 
his might have something to do with that....

No that came later , like a year later . I don't know the exact date but Californians were supposed to be turning in there mags for about a year before that ruling . What I'm not clear on is what that lawsuit was specifically about . I know the outcome but not sure what the plaintiffs were originally suing for . I don't think it was the ten round limit itself because we've had that law on the books since the early 2000's . More then one lawsuit has failed fighting that since then . Maybe this last one was more of the same but I believe it was more about the owners being required to dispose of property they legally owned before the most recent law was enacted . The judge then took it a step further by looking at the whole law and not just the section requiring the owners to dispose of there property and said the ten round limit it self was unconstitutional .
 
I'm just saying I'm glad people are standing up against these ridiculous laws and making a positive statement about our 2A rights. I wouldn't own a bump stock. I don't even own a semi auto rifle. IMO bump stocks are junk fit for a junk yard. I'm not defending bump stocks just the people that own them.:thumbup:

The world could use more people like you who defend the rights of all law-abiding Americans--even when it is a right you choose not to exercise.
 
I love how the ATF can just make up it's own rulings without any sort of real procedure, enforce them anyway they want, and unless you're somehow able to spare thousands and thousands for a lawyer they can "getcha" anyway they want regardless of what was previously stated as a 'legal ruling.' A government agency with essentially nobody to answer to, no oversight, that can do whatever it wants. Even investigate itself and find itself clear of wrong doing. Orwell.
 
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