bumpstock ban process

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ban goes into effect March 26. And the NRA is fine with that, so I see little reason for optimism.
 
It's gong to be used as precedent for the next president to ban semiautomatics like the AR-15 by a change in regulations. Mark my words. This is especially true if the plans for an AWB are blocked by the filibuster in the Senate.
 
It's gong to be used as precedent for the next president to ban semiautomatics like the AR-15 by a change in regulations. Mark my words. This is especially true if the plans for an AWB are blocked by the filibuster in the Senate.

All that would have to be done is to re-interperate the term "readily restored to shoot," WRT to machine guns, to encompass the capacity to accept a lightning link.
 
All that would have to be done is to re-interperate the term "readily restored to shoot," WRT to machine guns, to encompass the capacity to accept a lightning link.
You can mill and drill an AR-15 lower receiver to accept a regular auto sear in much less than the "8 hours in a well-equipped machine shop" that was referenced in at least one court case. Not to mention improvised solutions such as DIASes, Lightning Links, or the simple removal of the disconnector to allow sporadic hammer follow-down automatic fire.

The AR-15 semiautomatic was approved prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, which added the "readily restored" language. If the application for approval had been submitted after 1968, it probably would not have been approved. The previous approval was not rescinded due to bureaucratic inertia, and the political clout of Colt and other industry players.

I can easily see a President Biden, for example, ordering the ATF to issue new regulations "correcting" its interpretation to comport with the GCA '68. Millions of AR's would become contraband, with no compensation and no way to legalize them under the NFA. And it wouldn't stop with AR's, but the same rationale could apply to many other semiautomatics.

The point is that after the bump stock fiasco, concepts like long-standing precedent, detrimental reliance, and governmental estoppel don't mean anything any more. Something as insignificant as a bump stock has green-lighted something else that would truly be revolutionary.
 
The Guedes case has been dismissed by a judge. Details to follow, but the judge says they failed to prove their case.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5750747-BumpStockRuling.html

Edit: Looks like the Judge applied Chevron Deference. IIRC, there is a case before scotus about the bounds of Chevron and Auer deference...

The attourneys for Guedes have issued a brief appealing the decision to deny a prelim-injunction.

https://www.scribd.com/document/400980820/Codrea-Opening-Brief

They hammer on the misapplication of Chevron in that 1) Chevron is flatly precluded by SCOTUS precedent WRT criminal statutes and 2) if the terms are ambiguous (and consequently subject to deference), then the law likely runs afoul of the 5th Amendment:

The district court's reliance on Chevron is inexplicable. After the decision was issued by the district cout, these Appellees, in separate cases in other jurisdictions, filed Notices of SUpplemental Authority which invoke the Supreme Court's decision in United States v. Apel, 571 U.S. 359 (2014) and state "Defendants have not contended that the deference afforded under Chevron v. Nat. Res. Def. Council, 467 U.S. 837 (1984) applies in this action. See Apel, 571 U.S. at 369 (the Supreme Court has "never held that the Government's reading of a criminal statute is entitled to any deference")." In the Appellees' Opposition, "deference" is found only twice, and Chevron is not even given a passing mention. Both instances are in the criminal law context where the agency is not entitled to deference. In any event, the district court held that the ATF definition of machinegun was entitled to Chevron deference because the terms included in the definition of machinegun were themselves ambiguous.

Indeed, if the terms are ambiguous, then that ambiguity opens up these provisions to serious attack for vagueness under the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. See Sessions v. Dimaya, 138 S.Ct. 1204, 1212 (2018) ("the prohibition of vagueness in criminal statutes...is 'essential' of due process, required by both 'ordinary notions of fair play and the settled rules of law.'") quoting Johnson v. United States 135 S. Ct. 2551, 2557 (2015). This is, no doubt, the reason that the government has never claimed that the provisions are ambiguous.
 
I can easily see a President Biden, for example, ordering the ATF to issue new regulations "correcting" its interpretation to comport with the GCA '68. Millions of AR's would become contraband, with no compensation and no way to legalize them under the NFA. And it wouldn't stop with AR's, but the same rationale could apply to many other semiautomatics.

Any other semiautomatic. If the ability to bump fire makes a semiauto a machine gun, that is all semiautos. Sliding plastic stock or not.
 
If I was a bump stock owner and wanted to protest I would box up my stock in a small U haul box . Then I would send it to the ATF .
Imagine one million people doing this ,sending them to the ATF all on the same day.
 
Any other semiautomatic. If the ability to bump fire makes a semiauto a machine gun, that is all semiautos. Sliding plastic stock or not.
Ironically, something like H.R. 1263, by explicitly bringing semiautos under the NFA in their own category, would provide a safe haven from this kind of overreaching interpretation.
 
Last edited:
WA is "buying back" bump stocks this month, $150 each until funds dry up. I still can't figure how they get to use my money to buy something back they never owned in the first place. I wonder if it means I still kind of own a bump stock, I mean, I helped pay for it.
 
Any other semiautomatic. If the ability to bump fire makes a semiauto a machine gun, that is all semiautos. Sliding plastic stock or not.


And not to put too fine a point on it, but that could include pistols since one can bump fire Glocks, 1911's, etc.
 
Chief Justice denied a stay of the bump stock ban today. Justice Sotomayor is considering one last application for a stay.
 
That will certainly work. Guesses on how Roberts would come down on the next big RKBA expansion case?
 
The NRA has become nothing more than a super PAC for the GOP. The GOP had 2 years of total control and didn't repeal a single gun regulation and the NRA didn't call them on it. They didn’t even vote on the bill to take suppressors off of the NFA. Pathetic.

I must have missed it when the GOP had 60 seats in the Senate.
 
I must have missed it when the GOP had 60 seats in the Senate.
Nothing pro-gun was done even administratively, such as removing the ban on importation of barrels in parts kits. Trump could have done it with a stroke of a pen.

Certain Democrats in the Senate, such as Joe Manchin and Heidi Heitkamp, would have voted pro-gun if the issue had been presented in the right way.

The filibuster rule can be changed if the majority party in the Senate really wants to. I'll bet the Democrats do it next time if they regain the majority.

Republican rule has been a disaster for gun rights. First the bump stock ban, and now "Red Flag" laws. These things are laying predicates for much worse that is to come with a change in administration.

Ironically, if Hillary had been elected, nothing antigun would have been accomplished, because the Republicans would have been united against it. Now, they (some of them) are following Trump's lead, and Trump is not pro-gun (despite what he says -- actions speak louder than words).
 
Today SCOTUS ruled in favor of the bump stock ban:

"The court in a brief order refused to grant a temporary stay sought by plaintiffs including the group Gun Owners of America in a lawsuit filed in Michigan challenging the ban while litigation continues. The policy took effect on Tuesday on the same day that Chief Justice John Roberts rejected a similar bid to delay implementation in a separate case in Washington.

An appeals court previously exempted specific people and groups involved in the Washington case from the ban while that case continues."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...stock-ban/ar-BBVlCq5?li=BBnbcA1&OCID=AVRES000
 
Bump stocks have been illegal in Florida since last July IIRC and I have not seen one story on folks turning in or being prosecuted for bump stock possession. The Tampa area is way left leaning.
 
Today SCOTUS ruled in favor of the bump stock ban:
Not at all surprising.
Bump stocks have been illegal in Florida since last July IIRC and I have not seen one story on folks turning in or being prosecuted for bump stock possession.
On the other hand, I bet you haven't seen any at public ranges, either.
The bump stock ban is having the desired effect, which is to drive them underground. The same thing will happen if there is ever a "ban" on semiautomatics. There just isn't enough police manpower to go door to door confiscating them all. A few notable "examples" will be made, and then the rest of the owners will get scared and hide them. Few will turn them in. But a buried gun is for all practical purposes useless.
 
Nothing pro-gun was done even administratively,

That’s SOP for the GOP. If they ensure any of your rights, they think you won’t go to the polls in droves.

That’s how we went from the AWB with Clinton to flop over to GWB and R controlled House & Senate but they did nothing proactive, just let it “sunset” then we had 8 years of Obama.

If we are lucky we’ll get the guy that already “threw us under the bus”; they have already done the math and it’s bad or awful for us. Smart money is on bad...
 
The GOP had 2 years of total control and didn't repeal a single gun regulation and the NRA didn't call them on it. They didn’t even vote on the bill to take suppressors off of the NFA. Pathetic.
I must have missed it when the GOP had 60 seats in the Senate.
Nothing pro-gun was done even administratively
That’s SOP for the GOP.

President Trump's gun rights accomplishments (and failures, let's be fair) so far - https://www.conservapedia.com/Donald_Trump_achievements:_Gun_rights

I do believe BATF "relaxing" their interpretation of shouldering AR arm brace to be "OK" would not have happened if Trump was not president. If Hillary had won, we probably still be trying to shoulder buffer tubes. ;):D

2017
By the end of 2017, President Trump had built up a record as a strong supporter of Second Amendment rights.[1]

Legislation signed, 2017
  • February 28, 2017—President Trump signed a bill into law (Public Law 115–8)[2] repealing a Social Security Administration rule adding mental disability determinations to the background check registry, subject to a person applying to be removed from the list.[3][4][5] Congress had passed a law requiring federal agencies to search their records for people who were "mentally defective", and the Social Security Administration had published their method of gathering names on December 16, 2016. The regulation would have added the names of disability beneficiaries who have a mental illness or are not competent to manage their own finances, potentially leading to the removal of Second Amendment rights to many perfectly competent, mentally healthy citizens.[4][6] By signing the resolution of disapproval, as with other CRA acts, the Social Security Administration cannot come up with different criteria for supplying names to the background check registry for 10 years.
Executive actions, 2017
  • Starting early in his presidency, the Trump Administration undid Obama-era executive branch gun regulations.[7]
  • August 16, 2017—The Justice Department terminated Operation Choke Point, a program started during the Obama Administration that existed to encourage banks not to do business with "high risk" businesses and that was criticized by conservatives as unfairly targeting gun dealers and other businesses not looked favorably upon by liberals.[8]
Other achievements, 2017
While the following achievements were not official United States government policy actions by the Trump Administration, they were closely related to the Trump Administration and its policies:
  • As a sign of confidence in the Trump Administration by Second Amendment supporters, several media outlets reported in 2017 that gun sales fell deeply compared to 2016 after trump assumed office.[9] Others, however, noted that background checks for gun purchases increased to record levels in 2017.[10] The number of Americans with concealed carry permits continued to increase.[11] Ultimately, while the number of gun sales in 2017 was significantly lower than in 2016, it still became the second-best year on record for gun sales in the U.S.[12]
  • April 28, 2017—President Trump became the first president since Ronald Reagan in 1983 to speak at the National Rifle Association's annual convention.[13]
  • Unlike left-wing politicians, President Trump did not call for gun control immediately after major shootings such as one at a Texas church in November 2017, noting that stronger gun laws would not stop such shootings,[14] noting that the gunman had mental health problems and that it was not "a guns situation,"[15] and he noted that the shooter was stopped by another person with a gun.[16]
2018
Executive actions, 2018
  • May 14, 2018—The Trump Administration began the process of loosening regulations for certain small-arms exports and changing the agency giving approval from the State to Commerce Department.[17] It officially published the proposed rule changes on May 24, 2018.[18] In July 2018, President Trump approved the State Department's proposed implementation plan for the new policy.[19] In February 2019, the Trump Administration finalized the new rules.[20]
  • July 2018—It was reported that the DOJ had made a settlement with a 3D gun printer a few months prior, ending a lawsuit between the printer and the State Department over making blueprints for 3D-printed guns public.[21] In the settlement, the DOJ admitted that non-automatic firearms up to .50-caliber, including semi-automatic rifles, are not inherently military, and by allowing the release of 3D-printed gun blueprints, it undermined gun-buying regulations.[21]
  • December 18, 2018—President Trump's commission on school safety released its final report, which among other positive recommendations, called for more armed guards in schools, ending an Obama Administration race-based school discipline policy, and argued against raising the minimum age to buy a gun, rather than calling for more gun control.[22]
Other achievements, 2018
While the following achievements were not official United States government policy actions by the Trump Administration, they were closely related to the Trump Administration and its policies:
  • Gun sales remained strong at the beginning of 2018.[23] After a major gun shooting in Florida, which began another left-wing push for gun control, the number of background checks for gun sales,[24] as well as concealed carry permits, sharply rose.[25] The number of background checks in April 2018 set a new record.[26] In addition, gun manufacturers' stocks performed well.[27] While gun sales fell in May 2018, they still continued setting record highs,[28] and background checks in June[29] and July[30] reached the second highest levels ever for those individual months. Background checks also increased in August 2018.[31] On the other hand, some gun manufacturers reported lower sales because of the Trump Administration's relatively pro-Second Amendment stance,[32] and statistics in October 2018 showed a drop in gun sales, at least partially because of the administration's pro-gun stance.[33] The National Shooting Sports Foundation reported that in 2018, gun sales fell 6.1% overall.[34]
  • May 4, 2018—Both President Trump[35] and Vice President Mike Pence[36] spoke at the National Rifle Association's annual convention, where they expressed strong support for Second Amendment rights, among other topics.[35][36]
  • President Trump made other statements in 2018 expressing support for the Second Amendment,[37] including at CPAC,[38] and he expressed strong opposition to repealing the Second Amendment.[39]
Failures, 2018
Many of these failures and setbacks to the MAGA agenda, if not all of them, were caused by Congress or officials in the Trump Administration, rather than President Trump himself:
  • February 20, 2018—Under heavy pressure from the gun control lobby after a school shooting in Florida,[40] President Trump signed a memorandum directing the DOJ to create new regulations to ban gun modifiers such as "bump stocks."[41] The DOJ proposed its ban on March 10, 2018.[42] On December 18, 2018, the DOJ announced the finalized "bump stock" ban regulation, which would even apply to purchases made before the ban and require the confiscation of bump stocks already owned by Americans.[43] The ban went into effect on March 26, 2019.[44]
  • March 23, 2018—President Trump signed an omnibus spending bill that Congress sent to him, and its provisions included the Fix-NICS Act, which jeopardized the Second Amendment rights of over 4 million Americans.[45] The omnibus bill also included a clause that clarified that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention could conduct "gun violence research."[46]
2019
Executive actions, 2019
  • February 2019—The Trump Administration finalized the new gun export rules it had started implementing the previous year and which changed the policy to require gun-makers to have a license from the Commerce Department rather than the State Department to export firearms overseas.[20]
Other achievements, 2019
While the following achievements were not official United States government policy actions by the Trump Administration, they were closely related to the Trump Administration and its policies:
  • President Trump continued making statements in support of Second Amendment rights.[47]

Year 2019 is still very young and Trump still has all of 2020 ... give him time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top