Business-casual conceal-carry with a snubnose?

[Onward Allusion]

It depends on your size. If you're like me - 5'10" 160lb - there's no way in hell I can IWB a J-Frame in an office setting and not have people notice. If you're more like 6' and 250, then yes you can be almost certain to be able to conceal a J-Frame. Personally, I'd stick with a LCP, P3AT, P32, or even a NAA in the office with a pocket holster. You can always swap to a larger weapon in your car.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"If you're like me - 5'10" 160lb"

Describes me.

I carry a J-Frame S&W snubbie in my right front pocket in tucked-polo business casual whenever I need to be in an office without any problem. You just need different pants.....


With that said, a flat small auto is easier to do this with.


Willie

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[AK103K]

The three Ive used most in your situation were the Kramer Confidant undershirt holster, a Smart Carry, and a Desantis ankle holster. All worked great, but what you wear over them, may need adjusted from your "normal" wear.

The Confidant works well and is comfortable over long days. While I have used it with a Colt Combat Commander in one pocket, and a double reload in its belt carrier in the other, two smaller handguns, like SIG P230's are a lot more comfortable. I would imagine a couple of 642's would be equally, if not more comfortable. I normally wear a fitted dress type shirt, and that wont work here. You need a full cut shirt if you want it to work.


The Smart Carry is one of my favorite holsters and one that many underestimate or blow off. You can carry some pretty big guns with them, but like the Confidant, your choice of clothing is important.

With pleated, loose fitting dress pants, Ive carried a SIG P239 (largest for me) or P230. With more fitted pants like my Carhartts/Dickies, my Seecamps are about all I can get away with. Like the Confidant, the smaller guns are more comfortable overall.

As much as it seems like a really bad place to carry a gun, its really not. When worn properly, it isnt at all unsafe, nor is it pointing at your Johnson. The way it conceals is phenomenal. You can actually wear a pair of shorts or sweatpants without a shirt while wearing it.

The gun is actually very easily and quickly accessed, even while sitting, although reholstering isnt, and usually requires work.

The Smart Carry is also the "cleanest" holster Ive ever used. You will find very little lint/dirt/junk in the holster or your gun, even with extended use, and in very dirty/dusty environments.


Ankle holsters are like the others, you need the right pants, and shoes actually come in here as well, or at least for me they do.

I normally wear 6"- 8" boots, and that makes things a lot more comfortable, and because of it, the holster usually rides a little higher. With dress shoes, I normally use the suspension strap. Its a little annoying, since I usually dont wear it, but it does keep the holster from slipping down, and with it riding higher, its less likely being seen when your pant leg rides up when you sit.

It goes without saying, you need pants with a generous leg. The weight of the material can also be an issue in some positions.

I know a lot of people dont like ankle holsters, but I find them to be handy, and with practice, not at all hard to access. These days, I normally carry a Glock 26 in one, but when certain dress limitations come in, a S&W 642 or SIG P230 replaces it. The 26 is as big as I go, and for me, its pushing the limits, especially with some pants.

So far, I find the Desantis Leather Ankle Rig to be the most comfortable ankle holster for all day use. Ive tried most of the others too.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I carry a J-Frame S&W snubbie in my right front pocket in tucked-polo business casual whenever I need to be in an office without any problem. You just need different pants.....

Different pants might help. My business casual routine in Dockers with either a button down shirt or polo style tucked in. A Ruger LCR fits fine in a pocket holster with the larger Docker style pockets and does not print *gun*...you can see that there is something in my pocket but I carry a credit card vault in the left pocket and the bulges look identical.

Darker colors and pleats in the pants really make it a non issue.

I'm just getting acquainted with my first tuckable leather holster and this in appendix carry and a short barreled gun is, frankly, way beyond expectations. The gun disappears and can be drawn so fast/easy it is incredible. Even with a tucked polo or T-Shirt the only thing that can be seen is the clip and that has not been commented on even by my Wife who was looking for a gun.

Folks simply do not stare/look at your crotch or belt line in the front of your midsection and will not spot a clip - a cell phone case will cover it if if makes me nervous.

I can pocket carry a Glock 26 but my pocket days might be limited now that I have discovered a tuckable AIWB carry solution.

VooDoo

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Different pants might help. My business casual routine in Dockers with either a button down shirt or polo style tucked in."


Was my uniform too for years: When I was "Corporate" (as opposed to "Contractor") we had a list of corporate approved casual wear and could not deviate from it. Dockers and Lands End were our only choices in pants. When I went "Contractor" I could wear what I wanted. The 5.11 pants are LOTS LOTS LOTS better for this and look more or less the same to the observer. I went away from wearing strictly khaki as a color as well and went to whatever they call their sage green as a second choice. Looks great and hides a pistol perfectly. The Covert-Khaki pants by 5.11 are superb.

As far as appendix carry v/s front right pocket carry... well... if you've ever seen me pumping gas after dark in areas where I'm a bit skeptical of my surrounds, or walking to my car where I've made the jump to Orange from Yellow after seeing three guys come into motion when they see me, you might find my right hand is casually resting in my pocket.... about a half-second to a shot.


Willie

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[Sam1911]

Sam1911--If I could find a way to comfortably/safely/effectively conceal my 1911, then that would solve a lot of problems. What position do you carry that holster at? (3, 3:30, etc)

Mitlov started a new thread specifically on tuckable IWBs, which has gotten a lot of holster and how-to photos posted in it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=743797

Worth a look. Might just answer the "business casual" question.

See the Govt' Model 1911?

 

[shafter]

Business casual seems to be one of the most difficult dress codes for concealed carry. A little more casual and you can cover your weapon with an untucked shirt. A bit more formal and you can cover it with a jacket.

With my build and type of firearm bulge is going to be immediately apparent. Pocket carry doesn't work because my legs are too thick. Tuckable holsters don't work because my waist is too narrow. An ankle holster is the only thing that works for me when dressed this way.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"See the Govt' Model 1911?"

Immediately. I could spot you as a concealed pistol carrier from 25 feet away.....

Other points: The time to present and shoot from that system is in the multiples of seconds and for best speed requires both hands. Take the video of the recent shooting of a goblin by an off duty Chicago police officer and contemplate the results if he had been set up like this. Not pretty.

Reading the other thread, (and thanks for pointing it out): While I respect your experience, it's in stark contrast to mine. Simply riding in a car... never mind shooting from inside one with that system...

These are the reasons I left the idea of IWB holsters at home when I needed to wear a tucked in shirt and no jacket. I carried a 1911 for decades wearing a sport jacket and a Summer Special, but once we went business casual things needed to change. As has been said, this mode of dress is a very challenging one for effective CCW.

Anytime you want to stand side-by-side and see who is able to put first shot on target at mugger-contact range with that system v/s a J frame carried in front pocket, come on down! Bring yer cash 'cause I'm a bettin' man...

(and this from one of Colonel Jeff's personal 250 students, a 1911 lover extreme: Give me a Summer Special, a 1911, and a sport coat and bring it on... )


Business casual is a compromise in many ways. It's a terrible CCW environment.



Best,

Willie

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[Sam1911]

Immediately. I could spot you as a concealed pistol carrier from 25 feet away.....

LOL, Yes, I have no doubt YOU could, just as could I.

But office workers? Naaah. No way.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Underestimating your adversary is the last mistake that many people make.

In an office, I am most likely to be targeted by a co-worker.

Nobody knows there that I carry. The guy I sit in meetings with might be the next Postal-Employee.

My worldview is likely colored by the fact that I was an... <searches for politically correct wording>.... "undocumented" ... CCW for decades. Years of it being terribly important to not be "made" is a mindset. Even today my office environment (when I am there, which is rarely) is not one where a handgun would be a socially acceptable choice were it known that I had one.


Willie

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[Sam1911]

Ok, well you do have to have a realistic view of your adversary. If you work with the sort of people who recognize the minute tells of carrying a gun (not EoTac pants, a clip knife, etc., like I showed, but the subtle ones of your own office attire) -- and they're likely to go full-postal on you, then sure, plan accordingly.

Everything's a balance. I don't particularly care to be armed only with a j-frame or micro-auto in a pocket, if I COULD have a full-sized Gov't model in a strong-side holster. Depending heavily on position and situation, a pocket holster might be faster on the draw sometimes, vs. a tuckable IWB, but it isn't night and day (unless you're starting with your hand ON the gun in your pocket, which is a funny way to go about your day).

In not knowing exactly what the threat will be that you face, you choose a j-frame in your pocket. In not knowing exactly what the threat will be that I face, I choose a full-size .45 in a hip holster. And we live with those choices. Either of which might or might not see us through the moment of need.

 

[Willie Sutton]

No disagreement at all. When I worked overseas in a business where the opposing team wanted me dead, I carried a 1911 in a summer special. To make a note to the Mods, my "undocumented' CCW experience was not in the USA. Nowadays in the USA in an office environment a J frame in my front pocket is probably far more than enough. There is an argument for a good honest risk assessment and risk management, and then arming yourself appropriately.

With that said, I've seen some pretty ugly scenes after guys were "released from duty" by the HR drones. You never know when they might come back to even up a score....


Willie

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[Vodoun da Vinci]

I think those of us that carry can spot another...we know the tells. Folks I work with and the general public? They'll never spot Sam's rig. They didn't spot my holster carried AIWB yesterday and the exposed clip was something they would never have seen me wear before. True, it had no gun in it as I have no CCL yet but I could tell by watching their behavior and eyes they had not a clue.

AIWB carry with my new tuckable I can draw and shoot timed in less than .6 seconds and that's moving while drawing and I just started training with it.

14 rounds of 9mm and in this configuration, which even my Wife was skeptical about not screaming *gun*!, and I'd bet very, very few folks are gonna spot it. And if they do I believe I'll spot them spotting me as they will be looking at a part of my anatomy that no one looks at. Carrying a Ruger LCR or Glock 42 or a thinner gun like my Colt 1903, or any other single stack pistol like our Colt Officers would be positively invisible and comfy even tucked.

I like pocket carry and train shooting by drawing from it and shooting thru it (with a revolver in a jacket pocket) but I think the right body shape and the right holster and IWB carry (for me - when I'm Business Causal) will push pocket carry to a last ditch option and rare occurrence.

VooDoo

 

[mgkdrgn]

*NEVER carry a snub nose revolver in a pocket without a pocket holster - with a decent pocket holster like a Mika you won't get an identifiable "printing" and it will keep you safer, and your firearm cleaner. As long as you don't wear tight fitting pants and have decent depth to your trouser pockets, a S&W 642 or similar lightweight snub hides well in a packet holster, or a small semi-auto as well. In either case, don't do pocket carry without a pocket holster.

+1 for Mika and his stuff ... just GREAT, and not at all expensive

http://www.frontiernet.net/~akim/

 

[mgkdrgn]

-MY- first choice is my NAA Black Widow, 22mag 5 round revolver in a pocket holster. Very flat, light, comfortable, and for all intents and purposes invisible.

2nd, CZ83 in .380, in a Mika pocket holster. Again, just about invisible. If 12 rounds of hot 380 can't resolve your problem, you have having a very very bad day.

 

[Sam1911]

A single-action .22 5-shot is your FIRST choice?

 

[Onward Allusion]

One gun doesn't fit all scenarios. I usually have a NAA Mini or a P32 in and around the office myself. Outside of the office but not at home, it's a P32 or a P11. Around the house on my belt these days is a 2nd Gen Sigma in 9mm with a set of LaserLyte rear sights & 17 rounds. Why limit one's self to a single gun when different situations have different needs?

 

[gazpacho]

Take a pair of dress pants ( a size larger, if they won't look too baggie on you ) to a tailor and have the pocket material replaced with thick denim. Have the pocket material extended on the inside up to the waist line, so it gets more support from your belt.

A thin 380 in a leather or kydex form disruptive holster will look like a small wallet like lump, but will carry very well in dress pants.

 

[krs]

Take a pair of dress pants ( a size larger, if they won't look too baggie on you ) to a tailor and have the pocket material replaced with thick denim. Have the pocket material extended on the inside up to the waist line, so it gets more support from your belt.

A thin 380 in a leather or kydex form disruptive holster will look like a small wallet like lump, but will carry very well in dress pants.

This is what it's boiled down to for me although I had my wife sew in pocket holsters to limit how far my Sig p232 can go into my pocket.
I use the sig because it's the most reliable .380 I've tried and I've tried a lot from Colt M1908 to Walther ppk. The Sig has NEVER failed to fire or cycle any of the modern hot HP ammo.

Also, I like a decockable round-in-chamber safety off pistol nowadays. I'm making more and more hand errors in my older days, but that's a whole nuther story.

 

[Onward Allusion]

There is one very important thing to note about pocket carry without a pocket holster or just having a reinforced pocket sewn in the front pants pocket. When you draw, be sure to use your weak hand to apply pressure toward the bottom of the pants pocket so that the pocket doesn't turn inside-out. Otherwise, the gun can catch on the pocket's fabric.

The best and safest way to front pocket carry is to use a thin pocket holster with the sticky outside and the really smooth inside (e.g. DeSantis Superfly).