C&R List, "Phoenix, (U.S.A.), pistol, caliber .25 ACP"?

[greenr18]

I noticed the C&R list has "Phoenix, (U.S.A.), pistol, caliber .25 ACP" exactly what pistol are they referring to? I doubt it's every .25 ACP pistol made by Phoenix Arms, and I don't know of any .25 ACP just called "Phoenix." Anyone know? Is it one of those obscure 1908 copies that seemed to be all over the place in the 20s-30s that came from everywhere and anywhere?

 

[MAKster]

The only Phoenix 25acp I've ever heard of is the zinc POS. I cannot believe they got the exemption for firearms less than 50 years old which are of museum interest, novel or rare.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It is an early 20th Century gun made by Robar of Belgium; the model was originally called the Jieffeco; the imported version was called the Phoenix in the USA. This Phoenix from about 1907 resembled the .25 Browning.

http://littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies q r/a robar gb.htm

 

[tark]

I'm with MAKster. The "LIST" is nothing more than a list of exceptions to the 50 year rule. How one of these "Phoenix" contraptions ever got on the list, (if they actually DID) would be a source of mystery to me.

To make the list, you must convince the ATF rthat the gun was owned by a famous person. Or was a historical curiosity (present at the battle of the Bulge etc) Or is such a marvel that a museum would want to display it... The Phoenix pistol that I know is none of these things.

Time to do a little digging.

 

[Monac]

I think that Carl N. Brown has it right about the Robar "Phoenix" .25 auto being the one on the curio and relic list. IIRC, the importer back in the 1920's pretended that they were made in the USA and so there was more US collector in them than you might expect.

PS - Ed Buffaloe has an excellent article about this Phoenix .25 here:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Melior1911/melior1911.html

 

[greenr18]

Wow there's one on Gunbroker under the Jieffeco name. Kinda pricey for an ugly and ancient design that parts will probably never exist for. No thanks

 

[barnbwt]

Well, I suppose there are collectors of K-Cars, also. Whatever floats your boat.

TCB