C&R question

[c5matt]

hey guys,
i figured the big-brains in here could give me a quick and accurate answer. i recently got my c&r. ( it came so fast in the mail, it made my head spin after hearing the horror stories of the typical governmental wait). anyway now that i have it do i have to log ALL of my firearm purchases, or just the ones that qualify as c&r?
thanks in advance!!

 

[Bruce333]

Just the C&R that you purchase/sell while you have the license.

 

[eastwood44mag]

All C&R buys/sells, EVEN IF YOU DON'T USE THE LICENSE TO OBTAIN THEM!

Can't stress that enough.

 

[jrfoxx]

All C&R buys/sells, EVEN IF YOU DON'T USE THE LICENSE TO OBTAIN THEM!

Yup.Any C&R eligible gun you acquire, while you hold a valid C&R license must be logged in (or out, in the case of getting rid of one). Also dont forget that any non-NFA gun that is at least 50 years old is C&R eligible. So, I f you go to the local shop, and buy a S&W made in 1957, you need to log it, as it's 51 years old, and is a C&R eligible gun.Plus side is, you can order that same gun off the net, shipped to your door.

I mention it as some people only think of antiques, milsurps, etc when they think C&R gun, and some also think thoat ONLY what is on the BATFE's C&R list is eligible, when the law actually says it's any title 1 firearm that is over 50 years old, OR is on thier special C&R list because they exempted it from the "over 50 year old rule" due to it's historic significance, theres something inherintly unusual/collectable about it, etc.

I had to log an old, unfireable Iver Johnson revolver, Grandpa's Astra 600, and Grandma's Galesi .25acp mouse gun, as all 3 were more than 50 years old when my dad was transferring a bunch of his handguns to me, most of which had to go thru an FFL, not being C&R guns, and not thinking to ask him the dates on any of them, those 3 went through the same FFL at the same time as the rest, when they didnt need too, but I had to log them either way. Transfer fee was only $10 per gun, so no biggie, but had I been thinking about it, I coulda saved $30. Oh well.


all that said, I have never heard of anyone with a C&R license getting audited by the BATFE, and the topic has come up MANY times, on MANY forums, for MANY years.But, if you end up being the first one ever picked, I'd suggest your book be correct and squared away.The BATFE is not known for it's sense of humor, nor it's forgive and forget" attitude.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Type I (modern) guns you might buy have nothing whatsoever to do with your license.

That said, guns that you acquire from a type-1 (regular FFL gun shop) that ARE C and R but are transfered to you in the 'normal' way--like they would be to a non-licensee with the forms and NICS background check, MUST also be entered. C/R guns you acquire in any manner go in the log. Some gun dealers (type 1) won't transfer ANY gun regardless of it's c and r status as a licensee-to-licensee transfer; Y-O-U must still log it regardless.

You and your license are one in the same as a C&R collecting entity for practical purposes (and yes, it *is* possible for a corporation to be a type 3, but this isn't the case here).

Only C/R eligible guns apply. There is always some debate here on THR about how to handle C/R's that you owned BEFORE you got the FFL-3; I entered the ones I had that would qualify in my log noting how and when I had acquired them. I've never heard of anyone running afoul of an ATF audit for having entered a gun in her log that didn't have to be there. I also keep copies of any receipts I have for guns in the log tucked in the last page. Do the pre-license acquired weapons need to be in there--I'm STILL not 100% certain. I AM 100% certain that they CAN be entered in the log however--and that anyone who might decide to steal them would be guilty of an additional federal crime for doing so.

 

[c5matt]

so....... i do not log the firearms that i had purchased before my c&r license, nor do i log the new(as in normal, run-of-the-mill, present day manufacture) firearms that i continue to purchase these days (ie.. new ak's and typical shotguns). just the mausers, m1, enfields, ect.. of the world go in the book.
sound right to ya'll?
thanks!!

 

[sctman800]

I keep two log books, one for C&R aquired while I have had the license, the other for all guns owned before and non C&R guns. This was recommended by the company I got my log book from and works well. Jim.

 

[EOD Guy]

Yup.Any C&R eligible gun you acquire, while you hold a valid C&R license must be logged in (or out, in the case of getting rid of one). Also dont forget that any non-NFA gun that is at least 50 years old is C&R eligible. So, I f you go to the local shop, and buy a S&W made in 1957, you need to log it, as it's 51 years old, and is a C&R eligible gun.Plus side is, you can order that same gun off the net, shipped to your door.

The 50 year rule also applies to NFA firearms, but the NFA rules still apply. The advantage is that a C&R FFL holder can have a C&R NFA firearm shipped directly to them without going through a dealer and paying an extra transfer tax.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

i do not log the firearms that i had purchased before my c&r license

If they would qualify as C/R guns, I would recommend doing so. I've never been able to think of a downside or pitfall to the practice.

 

[freakshow10mm]

The advantage is that a C&R FFL holder can have a C&R NFA firearm shipped directly to them without going through a dealer and paying an extra transfer tax.

This is correct but I'd like to clarify this statement.

When an NFA firearm is transfered from a dealer to dealer, there is no tax between the dealers. When the transfer is between a dealer and a non-licensee, there is transfer tax due. The "extra" transfer tax referred to above isn't the NFA transfer tax, it's the transfer fee the dealer might charge to handle the transfer. SOT dealers, manufacturers, importers, and governments can transfer NFA weapons amongst each other transfer tax free. It's when it is transfered to an individual (including corps and trusts) other than those that the transfer tax is due.

In the case of a C&R licensee obtaining a C&R gun that is a registered NFA weapon, the C&R licensee can obtain that weapon directly from an SOT but still has to pay the $200 NFA transfer tax.

 

[EOD Guy]

This is correct but I'd like to clarify this statement.

When an NFA firearm is transfered from a dealer to dealer, there is no tax between the dealers. When the transfer is between a dealer and a non-licensee, there is transfer tax due. The "extra" transfer tax referred to above isn't the NFA transfer tax, it's the transfer fee the dealer might charge to handle the transfer. SOT dealers, manufacturers, importers, and governments can transfer NFA weapons amongst each other transfer tax free. It's when it is transfered to an individual (including corps and trusts) other than those that the transfer tax is due.

In the case of a C&R licensee obtaining a C&R gun that is a registered NFA weapon, the C&R licensee can obtain that weapon directly from an SOT but still has to pay the $200 NFA transfer tax.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[jrfoxx]

The 50 year rule also applies to NFA firearms, but the NFA rules still apply.

Yeah, I was aware, but just left it out to try not to add extra possible confusion, since I am not 100% up on NFA guns, and didnt want to give the impression it was just like buying an enfield or something, since, as pointed out, it isnt.

I figured that was a less likely scenario for most people anyway, whereas a lot of people might forget that a 55 year old Ruger, Colt, winchester, etc does have to be logged, since when people talk about C&R guns, the discussion is normally referring to milsurps.


From the horse's mouth, just in case I didnt word things right or something:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm

Firearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. However, if your C&R item is regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and you desire removal from the provisions of the NFA, you must submit the firearm to the Firearms Technology Branch for evaluation and a formal classification.