CA Mag Ban Unconstituional

[Basura Blanca]

The correct circumstances to get standing to file this suit only took 20 years, so it may be a while.

True. But the fact that those circumstances came at a price of millions of dollars spent by prop 63's proponents makes this a solid win no matter what the immediate outcome may be.

 

[Basura Blanca]

As much as we all love the district court opinion, the fat lady hasn’t yet sung. We still have long and uncertain road.

Fair enough but I would argue the fat lady never really sings, or rather never really stops being ready to sing some more.
Just like Kozinski's dissent in Silveira, having Benitez's opinion as part of the record has value of its own. The difference is this time we won, at least temporarily, and with prospects to keep the battle going further.

Isn't that a better outcome than the alternative?

 

[pdsmith505]

But since the number of deaths from home invasions/personal attacks is larger than number of deaths from mass shootings, if the government was trying to reduce the total number of deaths, allowing citizens to have larger than 10 round capacity magazines would prevail (And judge Benitez used lady with larger capacity magazine example to support self defense, which would apply to self defense).

Similarly, citizens present at mass shootings armed with larger than 10 round capacity magazines would have greater ability to counter.

Let us hope it stands.


I believe the ruling addressed the fact that it would fail the test (at least in that court) under Intermediate scrutiny as well.

I would be interested on what Frank and Spats think about the ruling as I am years of education and a few billion brain cells sort of being a lawyer and staying at a Holiday Inn last night wouldn't help.

Opps Frank mentioned earlier

What Judge Benitez opines to be appropriate levels of scrutiny (in this opinion, no level of scrutiny) and reasonable fit of the law to the government interest has absolutely nothing to do with what the 9th circuit will opine. The fact that the tally of home invasions is higher than the tally of mass shootings does nothing on it's own to determine the constitutionality of the law... if appealed (most likely), the 9th circuit will do it's own analysis of what level of scrutiny is appropriate and how reasonable the fit must be to the government interest of reducing the impact of mass shootings. Judge Benitez's opinion carries only as much weight as the judges assigned to the appeal decide to give it.

Don't get me wrong, I personally think this opinion is on-point and long overdue. But, as we've seen previously in the 9th circuit, even 3 judge circuit panel opinions that carefully and skillfully lay out reasoning for why CA's gun laws are unconstitutional (Peruta anyone?) are likely to get turned on their ear by an en-banc hearing, let alone an opinion written by a district court... and such a hearing would likely be requested by a judge on the circuit (again, see Peruta)!

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Websites are crashing left and right.

Those millions of us in CA are MAKING ORDERS.

 

[Dudedog]

I will be donating to the outfits that made this possible and i want to encourage you all to consider doing the same.

California Rifle and Pistol Association
CRPA
They are an Amazon Smile charity BTW.

 

[ECVMatt]

I have always felt that at some point the overly restrictive states would go too far and things would start to fail. I think this is an example of California going a bridge too far.... and now we might see national level implications from their overly zealous actions.

 

[JTHunter]

What is the likelihood that the CA AG will appeal this to the SCOTUS? Can they do so?

 

[LiveLife]

This just in. President Trump sends 2 more conservative nominees to 9th after Trump administration successfully nominated several conservative judges to 9th - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fe...h-9th-circuit-nominees-without-consulting-her

Coincidence?

 

[Frank Ettin]

....Isn't that a better outcome than the alternative?

Of course it is, but it's also important to be realistic.

What is the likelihood that the CA AG will appeal this to the SCOTUS? Can they do so?

It will go to the 9th Circuit first.

 

[JTHunter]

It will go to the 9th Circuit first.

I must have mis-read an earlier post. I thought somebody had posted that it had already gone to the 9th and they had upheld Judge Benitiz's injunction. I have also read elsewhere that the injunction had been made "permanent".

 

[RickD427]

I must have mis-read an earlier post. I thought somebody had posted that it had already gone to the 9th and they had upheld Judge Benitiz's injunction. I have also read elsewhere that the injunction had been made "permanent".

JT,
It has already been to the Ninth, but only on the issue of the Preliminary Injunction that Judge Benitez issued during the pendency of proceedings in his trial court. Those proceedings concluded on Friday when he issued his decision on the merits, and issued a permanent injunction against enforcement of CPC 32310.

The most likely next step is for the California Attorney General to take it back to the Ninth Circuit on appeal of the decision.

 

[LiveLife]

Palmetto State Armory is now shipping higher than 10 round capacity magazines to California along with increasing number of vendors - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LP1NCp0MjBoeDp6tc6ddb2dKKIAdqxU0qubnEANW4dc/edit#gid=0

Do you believe now?

Unfortunately, all popular magazines are sold out (But they should restock fairly quickly)

 

[LiveLife]

Radio show "Gun Talk" with attorney Chuck Michel about overturning California's controversial magazine ban (Listen to the part from 23:00 to 30:00 where Chuck addresses "possession vs. acquisition") - http://guntalk.libsyn.com/advanced-...Jz_57NLo8DBv6Pk7T1PtcUwb3Iwe9L-YaEqjrOEGmmZqc

Attorney Chuck Michel - "The judge issued a judgement with the order which [immediately] became law". He cautioned CA DOJ's counsel is likely to come up with some absurd argument to get a stay as early as Tuesday (Monday is state holiday) and reason for massive frenzy magazine buying.

He will have Q&As by Monday or Tuesday on questions related to the ruling on his twitter - https://twitter.com/crpapresident?lang=en

Tom Gresham: "... we've got this three day window - are they legal right now?"

Chuck Michel: "We don't know if we have a 3 day window. The judge did issue a judgement, which would imply that the order, that went along with the judgement, is final and the injunction is final. And everything that I've looked at suggests that that's the case: that this is a final order- a final judgement, so that injunction is in place right now against enforcement. But I don't know what the DOJ lawyers might come up with. I'm sure they have law clerks scouring the law books right now trying to find some way to say that you don't have the ability to acquire one of these magazines between the time that the judgement comes down and the time that they seek a stay. Will they find something? We couldn't."

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I know of at least one person who placed a sizeable order from gunmagwharehouse

 

[LiveLife]

You mean "arms"/MAGAzines?

And as judge Benitez ruled, we should start calling magazines "arms".


Another problem for the CA AG/DOJ is the issue of state taking of "arms"/magazines from citizens in violation of the 4th Amendment.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Yeah, I'm not even looking online. I'll let the folks in CA catch up. Shame they cant take advantage of those PMAG/ammo packages PSA has though. I'd like to know how much profits spiked for those sites that are shipping. Not counting the brick and mortar places. I'd say finding one of those with inventory would be impossible. I bet there is a fair amount of price gouging at the stores too.

 

[LiveLife]

Number of vendors who will ship to CA went up exponentially this morning (They likely consulted their lawyers/attorneys and it's a good sign) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LP1NCp0MjBoeDp6tc6ddb2dKKIAdqxU0qubnEANW4dc/edit#gid=0

Many vendors have already sold out or selling out.

I bet MagPul and many other "arms"/magazine manufacturers likely went to 24/7 operation to meet the restock demand.

MagPul and other manufacturers should thank NRA/CRPA by making fat donations as they will likely exceed their annual sales in the next few days/weeks as demand will increase until CA AG/DOJ responds.

 

[F-111 John]

As has been pointed out earlier, California Statute 32390, which declares all magazines greater than ten rounds to be a public nuisance and are to be confiscated by authorities whenever encountered, while mentioned in the ruling as specious was not also struck down, so there may well be a lot of police confiscation of magazines from brick and mortar stores today.

 

[LiveLife]

Demand will likely increase prices (Already has) and if supply cannot meet demand, there may be many who will sell higher capacity than 10 round "arms"/magazines for profit through in-person out-of-state sales, private sales, etc.

Today is CA state holiday (Cesar Chavez day) and I can picture long line of car convoys headed for border towns (Las Vegas, Reno, etc.) and long lines at the airport headed for out-of-state purchases. Many are starting to post on forums/Youtube purchases of several hundred to thousands of dollars worth of "arms"/magazines.

 

[LiveLife]

there may well be a lot of police confiscation of magazines from brick and mortar stores today.

No.

LE agencies will wait for state AG/DOJ review and response.

If any police chief or county Sheriff gave order for confiscation, it will be an immediate career ending move.

 

[LiveLife]

Think about what CA AG/DOJ and governor Gavin Newsom discussed over the weekend. Below is Amicus Brief done by Giffords Law Center - https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/the-second-amendment/amicus-briefs/page/2/

This was their best argument which judge Benitez destroyed and overruled on Friday. I could just imagine Newsom yelling at Gifford Law Center if they cannot come up with something better.

And with 9th Circuit judges replaced with more conservative judges by President Trump (10 already with 2 pending), future panel make up that will hear CA AG/DOJ response could be very different from the past. Elections have consequences.

"Case Information: Duncan v. Becerra, No. 17-56081 (Ninth Circuit brief filed Oct. 19, 2017).

On July 17, 2018, the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit narrowly affirmed the preliminary injunction blocking implementation of California’s LCM possession ban. However, the appeals court did not decide the merits of the constitutional challenge, and found only that the district court’s preliminary decision was not an abuse of discretion. California’s law remains on hold pending a decision by the district court on whether to grant a permanent injunction and the Ninth Circuit’s resolution of an appeal of that decision.

At Issue: Last November, California voters overwhelmingly approved Proposition 63, a package of smart gun laws drafted by Giffords Law Center attorneys in partnership with California Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom. One of Prop. 63’s reforms closes a loophole in the state’s gun laws by prohibiting the possession of large capacity magazines (LCMs) capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition. As Prop. 63’s effective date approached, gun lobby groups brought a constitutional challenge to the law, and persuaded a federal district judge to block implementation of the law’s LCM provisions pending a final decision on their challenge. The judge’s decision to block Prop. 63’s LCM provisions was an extreme departure from settled Second Amendment law, and the state immediately appealed the decision to the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

Giffords Law Center’s Brief: California Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom joined Giffords Law Center in submitting an amicus brief to the Ninth Circuit in support of Prop. 63. Our brief argued that the court should follow its own Second Amendment precedents, and the US Supreme Court’s decision in Heller, and allow Prop. 63’s LCM provisions to take effect. Our joint brief explained the critical need to close the LCM possession loophole and halt proliferation and use of military-grade magazines by criminals and mass shooters, including the shooter who recently used LCMs to murder 58 people in Las Vegas. Our brief argues that the Second Amendment plainly does not protect magazines that are unnecessary for self-defense and the favored tool of mass killers, and explains that the state of California has presented more than adequate evidence showing that the LCM restrictions will reduce the number of lives lost during mass shootings."

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

As has been pointed out earlier, California Statute 32390, which declares all magazines greater than ten rounds to be a public nuisance and are to be confiscated by authorities whenever encountered, while mentioned in the ruling as specious was not also struck down, so there may well be a lot of police confiscation of magazines from brick and mortar stores today.

This is true.

But...

Meh. Take it. They are $12-$25 for me.

I will buy twice as many as they take. And I will tell them that.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Demand will likely increase prices (Already has) and if supply cannot meet demand, there may be many who will sell higher capacity than 10 round "arms"/magazines for profit through in-person out-of-state sales, private sales, etc.

Today is CA state holiday (Cesar Chavez day) and I can picture long line of car convoys headed for border towns (Las Vegas, Reno, etc.) and long lines at the airport headed for out-of-state purchases. Many are starting to post on forums/Youtube purchases of several hundred to thousands of dollars worth of "arms"/magazines.

It is a holiday.

A lot of gun owners (me?) are treating it like a holiday.

and you don't need to go to border town. Just order online and have it shipped to your door.

 

[LiveLife]

and you don't need to go to border town. Just order online and have it shipped to your door.

Most have sold out and selling out fast.

Besides, many Californians would love an excuse to getaway to Reno or Vegas. There are cheap direct flights to Vegas from many CA cities.

If they were smart, they would go to states with no sales tax, like Oregon.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Most have sold out and selling out fast.

Besides, many Californians would love an excuse to getaway to Reno or Vegas. There are cheap direct flights to Vegas from many CA cities.

If they were smart, they would go to states with no sales tax, like Oregon.

I know of at least 3 people who bought upwards of $500 worth of mags. order is on the way.

Sales tax vs gas prices is a tough one.

I like to visit free states too, but we have a saying for gun owners in CA:
"Git while the gittin's good!"