Ca Microstamping, AB1471

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ok, i did some research of my own, and here is what i found. for what it is worth, sorry for the thread hijack.
In California, the California Department of Justice ("DOJ") serves as a state point of contact for implementation of the Brady Act. Bureau of Justice Statistics Survey of State Procedures Related to Firearm Sales, Midyear 2004 (August 2005). With limited exceptions, all firearms transfers must be conducted through a licensed dealer. Cal. Penal Code § 12072. Dealers then process each firearms transfer through DOJ, which in turn uses NICS and other databases (including its own records, and those it is authorized to request from the State Department of Mental Health) to verify that prospective purchasers are not prohibited from possessing a firearm. Section 12076(d). In addition to the federal purchaser prohibitions referenced above, California has adopted other classes of prohibited persons, and incorporated some of the federal prohibitions as state offenses.

http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp#bradylaw

so, it seems that while DOJ is the point of contact, they check NICS and their own databases, not just the Federal one.
 
It's been well established that a state can not secede from the union...

But can we vote another state off, like on survivor? I'd bet that nationally we could let California be their own country so their liberal trash stops infecting the US...

[/rant off]

really, this one has been beaten to death, micro stamping can not, does not, and will not work, end of intelligent discussion.
 
sorry to sound heartless, but i'm done feeling sorry for Californians. this type of stuff goes on constantly yet the people keep electing the same type of representation. when you elect Kindergarten Cop as your governor, what do you REALLY expect? .50BMG's were just the first of a long list guns that Arnie will gladly ban to get re-elected. people who fight the good fight in CA, good on ya, but honestly, just get out while you still can. let CA self destruct. it is beyond hope. if you live in just about any urban setting in CA, odds are you can sell your house and buy one comparable or even bigger/better somewhere back in the USA. after years upon years of the same things over and over, i've lost hope, the desire to try to help and all sympathy for Californians. i know the people on this board are likely not the problem but you (Californians collectively) made your own bed. now you get to lay it in.

Bobby
 
sorry to sound heartless, but i'm done feeling sorry for Californians. this type of stuff goes on constantly yet the people keep electing the same type of representation. when you elect Kindergarten Cop as your governor, what do you REALLY expect? .50BMG's were just the first of a long list guns that Arnie will gladly ban to get re-elected. people who fight the good fight in CA, good on ya, but honestly, just get out while you still can. let CA self destruct. it is beyond hope. if you live in just about any urban setting in CA, odds are you can sell your house and buy one comparable or even bigger/better somewhere back in the USA. after years upon years of the same things over and over, i've lost hope, the desire to try to help and all sympathy for Californians. i know the people on this board are likely not the problem but you (Californians collectively) made your own bed. now you get to lay it in.

Bobby

You are correct. The majority of people I know, co-workers, family, friends, the lady next door would not mind a bit if guns were gone from California forever. The sad thing is I have been a California resident my adult life and have only one friend that shares my views on guns. I keep my hobby in the closet so to speak. Most are terrified of them, they have never used them. They watch CSI in tv and see the horror and sorrow they cause. This microstamping bill is going to pass and that is very sad but if the people want it what can you do? I will keep up the fight, calling and e-mailing the powers that be, but what else can I do? :(
 
Raise the Beer Tax

I was talking to the sales rep from CZ at the Steel Challenge last week, really nice guy, my wife walked away and said "I'd buy a gun from him anytime". When the subject of my formerly fine state, my place of birth, California came up this otherwise nice man became visibly angry. The ignorance and laziness of the population of this state is beyond measure. Banning every gun is just fine with the sheeple in our state, put an extra .5 cent tax on beer or tax TV and the entire state would revolt and behead the entire state senate.

And yes, I call, write, fax and even make the occasional trip to the state capitol building.
 
Our "Republican" governor is already doing magazine cover photo shoots with Mayor Michael Bloomberg. That being said, I think our governor has little to no gun rights for the individual on his agenda. I hate this state. I did leave a message with his secretary to the effect of, "I thought Mr. Schwarzenneger" was a Republican, when is he going to start acting like it?!" I've already called 17 or so other assemblyman/women on this issue and told them to vote no on it, but this state is the way it is because the people just don't care what legislation passes and what doesn't. The criminals are going to do whatever they want anyway and the rest of the population are just sheep.

I'm moving to Oregon or Colorado..............real soon. I don't like living in a communist society within the Republic of California.
 
One very uncomfortable thought that has occurred to me is the possibility of someone getting the idea of banning revolvers because they do not leave an evidence trail. :mad:
 
It's never over -

To all those who keep telling Californians over and over that we've gotten what we deserve; quit whining; move out; "I'm sick of hearing about your problems,"; "I hope they stop selling guns to California!!!"; and worst of all, "It's a lost cause." We hear you. Loud and clear. Again and again.

Hey, no one is asking for your sympathy. But it's hard to understand the defeatism and personal jabs coming towards a group of men who are fighting for their rights. We're on your side! We believe, like you, in the second Amendment. And just let me say, It ain't over. California is still one of the biggest gun purchasers in the nation. Sometimes all the criticism sounds a little like the Democrats telling the soldiers fighting in Iraq that they've lost the war. It's just as easy to be constructive as negative. I just get tired of fighting our legislature AND the guys on the forums! :D Don't be mad at us, be mad with us! Sick of hearing about it? Fine. Rest assured that we Californians have it etched in our memory that IT'S OUR FAULT!!! O.K.? Ignore the posts, but why pile on? The people posting are the ones writing letters and fighting on. Giving up is NEVER the solution.

Still fighting the good fight - in the trenches . . . .
 
Hey, no one is asking for your sympathy. But it's hard to understand the defeatism and personal jabs coming towards a group of men who are fighting for their rights. We're on your side! We believe, like you, in the second Amendment. And just let me say, It ain't over. California is still one of the biggest gun purchasers in the nation. Sometimes all the criticism sounds a little like the Democrats telling the soldiers fighting in Iraq that they've lost the war. It's just as easy to be constructive as negative. I just get tired of fighting our legislature AND the guys on the forums! Don't be mad at us, be mad with us! Sick of hearing about it? Fine. Rest assured that we Californians have it etched in our memory that IT'S OUR FAULT!!! O.K.? Ignore the posts, but why pile on? The people posting are the ones writing letters and fighting on. Giving up is NEVER the solution.

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

I've contemplated moving to a more gun friendly state. But, all that amounts to is just quiting, giving up, throwing in the towel in our fight for our Constitutional rights.

It's very often HYPOCRISY whenever CA expatriates harps on about standing up for gun rights, then gloats about how smart he is because he left.

You people are handing CA and all its electoral power to the liberals. Don't you understand?! Some of you out-of-staters need to MOVE INTO CA to help us fight.

The saying, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" applies to gun owners, too, not just gun grabbers.

Think about that the next time you think you're so noble for abondoning this state. Funny how you people want to support the "freedom" of Iraqis, yet you do nothing to support the freedom of your fellow countrymen. You know who you are, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

It's just a matter of time before the same BS happens in your state. If running (moving out) is your idea of a solution, guess what? Eventually, you'll run out of states to move to.
 
On the other hand, I think it's wonderful that Barrett no longer sells firearms in CA... even to law enforcement. This is a great idea! If the citizens can't have guns, neither should the police!

Will the other manufacturers give up the CA LE market to support individual gun rights? They should, or else eventually LE will be their ONLY market. But, I doubt any other manufacturer has the foresight to support individual gun rights in this country. They only care about quarterly earnings.

I can only hope that other firearms and ammunition manufacturers follow in the footsteps of Barrett. We just need a couple more large companies to do this. Suppose Federal, Winchester, SIGARMS and S&W follows the Barrett. If Glock and Remington swoops in to take the LE market, individual consumers in the rest of the country could boycott Glock and Remington as it was done with S&W and Ruger in the past for betraying gunowners. This needs the momentum of the larger manufacturers. Barrett alone will not change things, but it is a terrific precendent and a great gesture.

I admire Barrett for their novel approach in supporting our rights.

http://www.crpa.org/showpages.asp?pid=1172
 
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You guys in the other 49 don't realize how much it benefits you to have your disaffected, disgruntled, non-productive, mentally ill, and artistic hop a bus for California. We've been the promised land for the outcasts of your society for decades. Add the Hollywood crowd and it's no wonder this place is screwed up.

Every one of my "representatives" has (Dem) after their names. Every one is a hard left socialist. Taxes increase every year, the schools are a pathetic, politically correct jokes, crime is prevalent and largely ignored, and Government continually gets more invasive. I don't bother writing anymore -- it'll just get me put on a list.

I'm a 4th generation Californian, and I'm looking to get the hell out.

Other than that, it's 90 degrees here and beautiful.
 
"You guys in the other 49 don't realize how much it benefits you to have your disaffected, disgruntled, non-productive, mentally ill, and artistic hop a bus for California."
Actually I do. I wish every junkie, flasher, gangsta, robber, vagrant and other degenerate were offered a choice between prison and a bus ticket to Santa Monica. If the Democrats love them so much, let Malibu Babs demonstrate her compassion for the downtrodden by taking in some reeking bums whose main occupation is chronic intoxication. We got out of the DPRK back in ought 92 and it's something I have never regretted. People always get out of a Communist country if they have the chance.
 
8200rpm -

I admire what Barrett did, but in the long run refusing to sell to California is only reinforcing the totalitarian mentality across the nation. Our legislators are delighted when gun manufacturers pull out of our state. They're trying to ban them every session of the legislature. To the only thing we're really doing by scaring off gun makers is punishing the citizenry. That's the "they get what they deserve" song all over again. Believe me, if it ever happens that guns are outlawed in California, the only thing that will happen is that they'll start screaming that the crime problem is coming across the border from AZ, OR, NV,or even Washington. Then, with a huge proportion of the the national vote, California will start demanding a federal solution. Sound familiar? Think "Katrina", a purely local, entirely Democratic problem that was the result of decades of Democrat corruption. Remember what happened? New Orleans re-elected that corrupt moron Ray Nagin as mayor and the nation blamed Dub'ya. No one's gonna learn any "lessons" by choking off the firearm supply to our state. Then we'll just be more like New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Massachusetts.

The way to go is to keep gun ownership as healthy as possible out here. The fight is here, the fight is now. The real problem was already touched upon: Gun owners are lazy. They'll take the time to post endlessly about how this or that is a bad law or about what to do when the SHTF, but they won't take 10 minutes to write to their representative. A lot don't even vote.

I try to support everyone who is standing up for their rights by getting involved. Hell, they're at least 20 million gun owners in the U.S., probably more. If they all showed up to vote we wouldn't be having this conversation. We need to encourage the fighters and bring more into the fold; no matter where they are. You don't win battles by taking pot shots at the guys fighting on your side!:D

Oh, and BTW, think activism doesn't work? I was alerted to OSHA's bid to limit sales of ammunition by classifying ammo as an explosive. Saw it on Sigforum, wrote to the proper agency whose address was provided, some wrote to Rush. It made talk radio programs and the written response must've been pretty big because they pulled it - for now.

Writing letters just has to be part of being a gun owner. Like cleaning your firearms!
 
After carefully reading the bill it is so fatally flawed it won't stop any gun from being changed. The proposed legislation says that the microstamping must appear on the "cartridge" everyone who has a gun or has handled ammunition knows that's impossible, Thanks to Michael Fuer a non-gunner the firing pin strikes the primer not the case. As it reads the firing pin must strike the case NOT the primer. Impossoble to get a round to fire that way.

Ammunition is made of four parts:
Case
Primer
Powder
Bullet

Goes to show you the people making the laws know NOTHING about what their talking about.

Ignorance at it's finest.
 
9/6/2007 Passed by Senate

AB 1471 Was read for a third time and passed by the senate now goes on the the assembly where it was already voted on for ratification before moving on to Gov. Schwartzeneger for signing.

A sad day for Californians. Basically anything that is not on the CA DOJ approved list is Screwed in the future. Hope that all that nothing falls off.

Guess I'll have to start buying one a month again right away.

I was looking to take September off and save some dough.
 
wonder if they realize how many gun stores this will put under. i know they dont care, but maybe if they ( state gov)get threatened with their jobs it will wake them up.
 
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I hope that no one minds too much if I make a modest suggestion.

The principle behind it is that people fear what they do not know.

My own observation during decades of interest in firearms is that many gunowners tend to be exclusive. Those gunowners who focus on tactical matters aren't much interested in people who don't share that interest and even sneer at them as "sheeple." So what happens is inevitable. The people who are sneered at or ignored tend to become opponents. When those opponents reach critical mass they vote against you. No matter how much they're insulted or ignored they continue to vote against you.

Here's the suggestion: start doing missionary work with unquenchable enthusiasm. Encourage friends and acquaintances to join you at the range--one at a time, so you can focus on each one--and introduce them to shooting in a way that makes them love it. Do it over and over again, one person after another. Make each of those people successful. Don't try to lecture them, don't sneer at them, and don't try to make them experts: help them to have fun.

My wife and I have been doing it for years. Some of the most anti-gun people we know have actually enjoyed themselves and asked when they can go shooting with us again. A few of them have bought handguns so they can bring their own.

One thing we always do is take a digital camera on these excursions. We focus on taking pictures of them in action and immediately afterwards we visit a local drugstore to print out a few of the best snapshots to give to them.

We've been astonished, by the way, how good every one of these people have shot. Of course we teach them but it's amazing how fast they catch on. Again, the emphasis of all these excursions is to help them have a good time and overcome their fears.

The fears go very quickly too. We explain that gunowners don't compromise on safety, and that includes us. We then quickly go through Jeff Cooper's four rules of gun safety and explain the reason for each of them briefly. They realize immediately that guns don't just "go off" and kill people.

We don't lecture them about anything, especially not about politics. It's fun time.
 
Just fired this off. I know it is weak, but it was the best I could do (I am on the phone juggling work stuff right now)

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,

I am writing in regards to Ca Microstamping, AB1471. I sincerely hope you see that there is no benefit to this bill. The technology to implement it is impossible at this time and it opens up law abiding citizens to criminal and civil prosecution. Whats to stop somebody from picking up a spent shell casing when I am at the range and dropping it at a crime scene, putting blame for a crime on me and letting them off scott free. People that want to use guns in crimes will still get them, whether they go over state lines and get them, or steal them from other citizens. This bill would effectively disarm people and leave no viable means of self defense to home invasion or other crimes. It will turn California into a giant victim disarmament zone, where the criminals know that whatever person they decide to go after will be disarmed and "easy pickings". Whatever guns dont comply with this bill will no longer be on the CA Approved list according to DOJ, and since the technology to comply doesnt exist, nobody would be allowed to purchase new guns in California, also costing thousands of people their jobs, and some families their businesses. All of this for a bill that will do nothing to curb crime in this state.

If you want a real step in the right direction of curbing violent crime in the state, look at going to a "shall issue" state CCW law. That centralizes training requirements and guidlines, and allows people that are otherwise qualified to carry concealed weapons. Statistics show that areas that have shall issue permits have generally a lower crime rate per capita than a similar demographic area without firearms permits. Criminals arent as fast to rob someone that might be armed. They might be criminals, but they for the most part arent dumb and dont want to die.

Thank you for your time.

Kermit315
Pt Mugu, CA

Hope it does something other than get trashed.
 
I second Robert Hairless's suggestion. I've had great luck in online debates with local (non-rabid) antis when I play the "You say you've never even held a gun before. Let's go to the range and get you some hands-on experience" card on them. I point out that it's on my dime, and they are perfectly free to still dislike guns afterwards, but most pro-gunners will at least respect the fact that they went out and tried it.

Of course, I've been lucky in that none of mine have still hated guns afterwards. :D

Edit: It's true too, how amazing it is most of these antis turn out to be, at the range. :)
 
Robert Hairless -

Great post. Thanks for the positive suggestion.

SoCalShooter and Kermit315 - nice letters.

I just fired off my 5th contact to the governator as I did last time this type of bill was up for a veto. What I said then, I'll say now:

If anyone from out of state could make time to write the governor it would be extremely helpful. Arnold is very sensitive to national interest and the fact that people from out of state were interested in what he's doing here might be even more influential than a home grown contact. Just a few lines. Five minutes.

I'll be glad to do the same for you anytime. Just PM me.
 
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