California referenda petitions sadly did not get enough votes

[old lady new shooter]

After the last set of horrible gun laws were signed into law here a few months ago, some private individuals (I think maybe led by the Pink Pistols, not sure) decided to put referenda on the November ballot to get them overturned. Petitions were available at all the gun stores and ranges. Sadly, the email I got from the NRA today said we did not get enough signatures to get the referenda on the ballot.

While I doubt the inconvenience dissuaded many potential signers, it was pretty unwieldy to have to sign seven separate petitions. The day I went to sign, everybody else in the gun store good-humouredly (sp?) signed all seven also.

Anybody have any thoughts as to how the atmosphere could be improved here, or is this a sign that it's more or less hopeless?

 

[Zoogster]

California is pretty bad now. Being an armed citizen is going to get harder and harder under the authoritarian state.

California has all sorts of additional offenses that make one prohibited both temporarily and permanently. They even have a department that is funded by the tax gun purchasers pay which goes around to disarm people if they become prohibited.

They got lists of people with guns and look forward to crossing people off that list.

They want to know about all guns. Homemade, tell us? They demand background checks for any transfers.
They are rebranding guns sold over the last decade illegal, and went back on their prior statement that grandfathered magazines could be kept, while simultaneously asking you to register lots of new things.
Think you can trust them?
They also officially created a program funded with millions of dollars just to create anti-gun 'science' on the gun problem to better ban more guns. It is an anti gun outfit in Berkeley that was already funding themselves to promote anti gun agendas before this new tax on gun sales made it an official program of the state.


The state is setting itself up to confiscate more in the future, and demanding you register everything you have now. While already previously having some of the strictest laws in the nation.
They promised people they could keep their high caps grandfathered last time, and went back on that now. They will come for other things too, at the individual level, and the collective level.
There really is a cultural war in the US right now, I just don't think the Political Parties are able to capture it. Unfortunately in California the powers that be want only the chosen few well armed. Choosing to remain well armed puts you on a possible path of collision with the state.
Which is likely to be a lot of people, both those who register and those who become illegally armed if caught.

It is sad what California has become.

 

[LadySmith]

I'm sorry to read this. I went in to a local gun store and signed 9 petitions.

 

[ATN082268]

Although it would have been nice to let the people vote on a referendum, it probably wouldn't of made much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. If a referendum is voted on and passes, there is nothing to stop the government from passing the same or similar laws again. If that fails, then the courts can always strike down part or all of the referendum.

 

[JO JO]

Sorry to hear this , seems to be spreading from California up the west coast, I fear one day the county will devide in two there is just no common ground and the liberals are just getting worse and worse they just hate freedom and our constitutional rights in my opinion

 

[old lady new shooter]

I find it disheartening that we couldn't even get enough signatures to get on the ballot. I would have thought that although the legislators are way left, some significant number of the electorate are not in that camp.

 

[JO JO]

That's because just like here in the NW the pro gun folks are largely to lazy and won't take the time to vote or be proactive and sign but they all will complain it is soooo frustrating we
Only have a less then 30% turnout and we to are going to loose some rights. I am not sure
That is how it went so bad down there but I would guess so

 

[barnbwt]

-When the proposals were first made public, the protests were like a couple dozen people
-Months later, I understand the largest protest against this measure was like 500 people
-Even with months and lots of publicity, CA was unable to meet the petition signature threshold (and considering how much stupid stuff *does* make the ballot via initiative every election). It doesn't sound like the typical signature-counting shenanigans were even necessary this time around to deny your measure.

The ballot has failed you
The legislature has failed you
The executive has failed you
The courts have failed you
The initiative process has failed you (betrayed is more accurate here)

If you are one of the apparently very few gun, or even more broadly freedom loving people still in California, just leave already. The common claim that "California has the most gun owners" is clearly a lie at this point, at best it no longer matters. There will be no federal court Deus ex Machina rescue for at least a generation (history clearly shows that so-called 'conservative' justices merely maintain the encroachment of tyranny out of respect for federal institutions as opposed to rolling them back aggressively), there will be no political swing in your favor, there will not even be a successful popular uprising/insurgency/secession if not even 375000 patriots can be mustered to sign their names.

Leave while you are still allowed to sell your property, and you haven't yet been convicted of a felony & had your life ruined. Stop granting the value & legitimacy of your talents, taxes, and federal apportionment to a society that will --repeat; will-- see you arrested for merely holding the wrong beliefs in a few years if not already. The time for going along to get along is coming to an end.

TCB

 

[JO JO]

-When the proposals were first made public, the protests were like a couple dozen people
-Months later, I understand the largest protest against this measure was like 500 people
-Even with months and lots of publicity, CA was unable to meet the petition signature threshold (and considering how much stupid stuff *does* make the ballot via initiative every election). It doesn't sound like the typical signature-counting shenanigans were even necessary this time around to deny your measure.

The ballot has failed you
The legislature has failed you
The executive has failed you
The courts have failed you
The initiative process has failed you (betrayed is more accurate here)

If you are one of the apparently very few gun, or even more broadly freedom loving people still in California, just leave already. The common claim that "California has the most gun owners" is clearly a lie at this point, at best it no longer matters. There will be no federal court Deus ex Machina rescue for at least a generation (history clearly shows that so-called 'conservative' justices merely maintain the encroachment of tyranny out of respect for federal institutions as opposed to rolling them back aggressively), there will be no political swing in your favor, there will not even be a successful popular uprising/insurgency/secession if not even 375000 patriots can be mustered to sign their names.

Leave while you are still allowed to sell your property, and you haven't yet been convicted of a felony & had your life ruined. Stop granting the value & legitimacy of your talents, taxes, and federal apportionment to a society that will --repeat; will-- see you arrested for merely holding the wrong beliefs in a few years if not already. The time for going along to get along is coming to an end.

TCB

The time for going along to get along is coming to an end.

very interesting choice of words and sadly I believe it to be true

 

[old lady new shooter]

switching from defense to offense

BearingArms has a piece on this, see http://bearingarms.com/beth-b/2016/09/28/cas-veto-gunmageddon-wont-november-ballot/.

They quote at length a facebook post from the guy who organized the petition drive, he said 6 weeks was just way too short a time to get 365,000 signatures. He's now starting a new proposal, to amend the California Constitution to recognize the right to keep and bear arms, apparently we are one of the few states who doesn't have such a provision. The time allotted to gather signatures for this is much longer, 6 months.

 

[JSH1]

That's because just like here in the NW the pro gun folks are largely to lazy and won't take the time to vote or be proactive and sign but they all will complain it is soooo frustrating we
Only have a less then 30% turnout and we to are going to loose some rights. I am not sure
That is how it went so bad down there but I would guess so

I'm curious about your 30% turnout number. In 2014 36% of eligible citizens voted in the USA as a whole. Every NW state was above that:

39.0% - Wyoming
39.3% - Idaho
41.2% - Washington
46.9% - Montana
50.9% - Oregon

2014 was midterm election without a presidential race. 2012 was much higher in every state with Wyoming being the lowest at 58.6% and Washington the highest at 64.8%.

 

[JO JO]

https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/Voter-Turnout-by-Election
lots of 30 % and many in the 20 % range, the one with the anti gun I 594 vote
only had a 24% vote turn out not good , years ago turn out was higher seems
like the last few years turn out has decreased and we lost ground / look at the
stuff that is being proposed now , that is why I say WE ALL NEED TO VOTE and
not give it away.

 

[JSH1]

https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/Voter-Turnout-by-Election
lots of 30 % and many in the 20 % range, the one with the anti gun I 594 vote
only had a 24% vote turn out not good , years ago turn out was higher seems
like the last few years turn out has decreased and we lost ground / look at the
stuff that is being proposed now , that is why I say WE ALL NEED TO VOTE and
not give it away.

1. Your link goes to "File not Found"

2. I-594 passed in 2014 where turnout was above 40%

3. If you are looking at county by county data this list from the WA Secretary of State shows the lowest county as Yakima with 47.5% of registered voters casting a ballot http://results.vote.wa.gov/results/20141104/Turnout.html (Also note that 46% of people in Yakima county voted for I-594)

 

[JO JO]

http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/Voter-Turnout-by-Election.aspx
it depends what spreadsheet you look at lots of low under 40% turnout here ,
not worth arguing about almost everything turns into an argument anymore! my point is we can do better than this and take it to the polls and vote those anti Constitution law breakers out of office,
even at your post of 40% turnout on I 594 if it was a 100 % turnout we may have won and stopped some of this then, that is why I say again
WE ALL MUST TAKE THE TIME TO VOTE AND SIGN PETITIONS !! The anti crowd votes and signs everything that helps them win anyway take it or
leave just my opinion I am still allowed that I think.

 

[JSH1]

So 4 elections in the last 10 years with turnout in the high 20's. All of those are primaries or special elections. All of the general elections have been above 40%. Also note that Washington has had 4 elections so far in 2016! That is way too many if you want people to actually turn out

In 2014 the counties that opposed I-594 had higher turnout (60.8%) than the those that supported it (58.3%). It wasn't turnout that got I-594 passed, it was simply that way more people supported it than opposed it.

EDIT: No you wouldn't have won even at 100% turnout because the counties that voted against I-594 only have 20% of the population.

 

[JO JO]

Ok I dont understand why you want to argue you can believe as you
like, I really like the high road but seems like even this place is becoming devided and not letting folks have an opinion without an
argument anymore and thats to bad
I hope to you folks in California you all do get the votes needed to have a fighting chance good luck to you !

 

[JSH1]

The High Road is a discussion forum. People discuss topics and not everyone has the same opinion. That is what makes them interesting.

A discussion isn't the same thing as an argument.

 

[barnbwt]

No you wouldn't have won even at 100% turnout because the counties that voted against I-594 only have 20% of the population.

Might explain the low turnout, to be honest (surrender). At any rate, it sure makes it a tall order for anyone outside WA to even consider lending assistance or resources when the very stakeholders who stand to lose the most only must 2% more turnout than the disinterested opposition (and a pathetically small fraction of the overall population in general by any measure).

Remember all the belly-aching about how the NRA didn't devote any of its precious, limited resources to the fight? This is why.

And although it goes completely counter to any kind of logic I can bring to bear on the available evidence, results like these certainly do lend credence to the claim that gunowners are a small minority in the US (or at least in large tracts of it) that is growing smaller and politically irrelevant --all the more reason to clump up into more defensible locations in the face of rabid hostility by the majority.

TCB

 

[JO JO]

http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/aqditozq7ecpwkj1yzshlg.pngh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_State_Senate

the state has a majority Senate Republican
Conservative 31.6% Moderate 36.3 % Liberal 28.2%
These are real numbers and Conservatives out number liberals but nay-Sayers keep telling everyone your vote don't count, your a minority and
so on which is a complete LIE this is why I say EVERY VOTE COUNTS AND WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF WE ALL VOTE !!!!!!
do not believe the liberal hype we do have the Majority STAND UP AND VOTE them out it can be done !!!!!
they trick us in thinking our vote doesn't matter and I have asked many folks did you vote and the reply is why it wont change anything so this
trick they use is false it will change everything both on the State and Federal level that is why they are using this tacit, they know if we ALL
Vote they will loose seats in Office and loose their agenda, they play dirty and dis honest.
NEVER GIVE UP !!!!

 

[barnbwt]

is a complete LIE this is why I say EVERY VOTE COUNTS AND WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF WE ALL VOTE !!!!!

Forget conservative, moderate, and liberal; what percent of your governing bodies are pro-gun, or at least stand against gun-banners? Obviously not enough to amount to much at this stage in the game. Will everyone voting turn that back? The real question is; is that a likely or possible goal?

No one's telling you to give up, at least I'm not; I'm telling you guys that you need to change tactics to something that works for a change. I suggest hooking up with like-minded individuals in more defensible areas, where you can lend your talents, resources, apportionment, and legitimacy, while at the same time enjoying the freedom you so value despite your Californian peers' hatred. Win-win. The beast shrivels & starves, the free states grow and prosper.

The ballot has failed you
The legislature has failed you
The executive has failed you
The courts have failed you
The initiative process has failed you (betrayed is more accurate here)

By all means, refute these points if my understanding of the situation is incorrect or incomplete; it'd mean I have less to worry about as far as my own gun rights if you guys are truly capable of holding your own out there. But I see stuff like this, that "The State with More Gun Owners Than Any Other, More Gun Owning Patriots Than Many States Have Residents" can't even muster a quarter of a million signatures in 60 days' time...and my heart is sick, and sad for you who remain. Seems to be a wild mental leap for many on the West Coast (I know, I grew up there), but results, not intentions are all that matter in the end.

This ain't results.

TCB

 

[JO JO]

I hear you I have plans to move and make a red state a little redder this summer but until I do move I will still stay true to my beliefs and fight the fight
its who I am. I believe in the Constitution and the OATH I swore when I joined
the service many years ago. I am afraid I maybe a dying breed on the West Coast but I will continue to try and get folks to Vote.
There is always hope right

 

[hso]

Everyone who is interested even remotely in preserving and restoring 2A as an inalienable right that shall not be infringed must work to get every possible voter to the poles to vote and support the 2A. Don't accept anything less than getting supporters into the booth to pull the lever for us instead of letting them sit it out.

OTOH, it is as or more important to work in the high population centers to prevent anti legislation from getting a toehold. Depending upon voting is a last ditch approach. Work to change the minds of the public about the Antis. Work to keep them out of local and state office.