Can I send my cousins pistol to him?

[Telekinesis]

I asked an FFL about this, and the OP’s cousin needs to consult an FFL directly and in person about shipping his own firearm, the OP cannot act on his cousins behalf to ship the firearm. Not quite what I stated above so I stand corrected.

The FFL is wrong.

The cousin has (previously) transferred possession of the gun to the OP. Now, when the OP gives his cousin the gun, another transfer of possession will occur. If the OP and his cousin are residents of different states, the transfer between them MUST go through a FFL.

Ownership has no bearing on this discussion, federal law cares about possession.

FYI Frank is a lawyer who has a very good understanding of this stuff. He posted the legal cites and language above - you (and probably everyone, including me) should review it.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I asked an FFL about this, and the OP’s cousin needs to consult an FFL directly and in person about shipping his own firearm, ...

No, an FFL is not a lawyer. FFLs don't necessarily understand this stuff. We've seen a few who do and a great many who do not. On can't count on an FFL providing accurate legal advice. For legal advice one goes to a lawyer.

 

[dogtown tom]

Let me tell you this process is anything but simple. After I had moved from Pennsylvania to Colorado, I took my firearms out of storage to a Pennsylvania FFL & had them ship my goods parcel post to a post office nearest to my CO residence. .

Your PA FFL violated Federal law. Interstate shipments of firearms can only be shipped to a licensee with two narrow exceptions.

Even though I owned all of the guns being shipped, I had to show my ID and proof of where I had moved to in CO (by that time I had a CO drivers license along with my invalid PA drivers license).

That's the policy of that FFL, not Federal law. Federal law only requires a government issued photo ID. If that ID does not show the current residence address, then additional government issued documents WITH the buyers name and current residence address may be used.

The FFL would not touch any of my stuff if I had not produced my CO DL with my new address on it

Wait....were the guns shipped to a Colorado FFL or directly to you? If to a Colorado FFL, then he would have to touch them, because Federal law requires that he record the acquisition into his books by close of business the next day.

The FFL had to verify all of the NICS info on each of the guns (all were bought in PA)

No, he didn't. NICS is for background checks on the buyer. There is no firearm info given to FBI NICS other than handgun/long gun/other. Besides, Colorado FFL's don't use FBI NICS, but contact the State of Colorado for background checks.

and then log all of the serial numbers onto his books with all the parcel post waybill numbers.

While the dealer records firearm information into his books, "parcel post waybill numbers" aren't part of ATF recordkeeping.

The FFL’s transaction and shipping logs are subject to BATF inspection audit so like I said this process is anything but simple.

ATF is limited to inspecting the dealers record of acquisitions and dispositions, inventory, 4473's and multiple sales reports. Shipping logs are not subject to any ATF inspection.

Based on what I went through with my own firearms, and this is going to sound mean, but honestly I would tell your cousin that the gun is right where he left it and waiting for him to pick it up next time he’s in town.

Felony much?

 

[Spats McGee]

. . . .

. . . . The FFL had to verify all of the NICS info on each of the guns . . . . .

No, he didn't. NICS is for background checks on the buyer. There is no firearm info given to FBI NICS other than handgun/long gun/other. Besides, Colorado FFL's don't use FBI NICS, but contact the State of Colorado for background checks. . . . .

No, the FFL didn't check NICS. It is possible, however, that he checked the CO counterpart to NCIC (National Crime Information Center). Arkansas has the Arkansas Crime Information Center (ACIC), which ties into the NCIC. When guns are reported stolen, that information is entered into ACIC/NCIC. Colorado has a similar system.

 

[dogtown tom]

No, the FFL didn't check NICS. It is possible, however, that he checked the CO counterpart to NCIC (National Crime Information Center). Arkansas has the Arkansas Crime Information Center (ACIC), which ties into the NCIC. When guns are reported stolen, that information is entered into ACIC/NCIC. Colorado has a similar system.

FFL's don't have access to NCIC to check whether the firearm is stolen. From your link it appears as if the Colorado and Arkansas systems are restricted to law enforcement agencies as well.

The FBI will revoke NCIC access to any law enforcement officer who uses NCIC for anything other than official investigations.

 

[Spats McGee]

FFL's don't have access to NCIC to check whether the firearm is stolen. From your link it appears as if the Colorado and Arkansas systems are restricted to law enforcement agencies as well. . . . .

You are absolutely correct. That should teach me to post about complicated stuff before I'm coffee'd up.

 

[dogtown tom]

You are absolutely correct. That should teach me to post about complicated stuff before I'm coffee'd up.

You would be surprised how many people think getting a used gun from an FFL means it wasn't stolen at some point. Some just assume I run their serial# through some database before transferring it.

 

[Spats McGee]

And I know better. I really, really do. Honest.

 

[herrwalther]

And I know better. I really, really do. Honest.

It is forgivable. I had access to NCIC searches from the sheriff's office. Looked up a few dozen firearm numbers when asked. Its easy to forget where you can't access that information.

 

[milemaker13]

Playing devil's advocate here... cant dude just come get his gun?

 

[milemaker13]

Playing devil's advocate here... cant dude just come get his gun?

Felony much?

Maybe not.

 

[dogtown tom]

Playing devil's advocate here... cant dude just come get his gun?

Didn't read what Frank posted? You should.
OP is in possession of a firearm. If the OP's cousin is not a resident of the same state the dude can't lawfully come get his gun from the OP.

Maybe not.

Maybe not? If you follow your own advice its a felony.

 

[milemaker13]

Easy there 'ol boy! I hadnt read thru everything b4 posting. Mistake..i know
I was agreeing with your " felony much", not questioning it.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

What if the pistol is a black powder pistol????????????????

I AM NOT A LAWYER!!!!

As I understand the FEDERAL laws, a flintlock or cap and ball gun is not considered to be a firearm and does not have the restrictions for transfer and so no FFL required FEDERALLY.

BUT... many states and cities have their own laws that require FFL transfer for them as well as requiring that the resident have a state registration (eg. Illinois' FOID card law.)

This is why many GB sellers limit the states to which they will ship.

When I buy a muzzleloader from Simpsons in Illinois, they are required by their state to ship to my Ohio FFL where I pay to fill out his form to get my BP gun.

Ohio is currently considering requiring background checks for all transfers (gun shows, private, etc.) but I have not heard how this will effect bp transfers.

The NRA (until NY state shuts them down) has an online library of firearms laws by state but many are very confusing unless you are a lawyer.

Then there are the grey areas of conversions and cartridge guns manufactured prior to 1898 and whether they chamber currently manufactured ammunition.

Wheels within wheels within wheels