Can someone help clarify some WA carry laws?

[ShooterMcGavin]

I have not been able to get my hands on the full version of the carry laws for Washington, yet, but I have read everything I can find on packing.org and confirmed what I know through other places. Maybe someone can clarify or point me to a source for the information? Here is what it pertains to....

I was talking with 2 friends last night. One guy had his gun taken when he was pulled over. He claims: it was loaded, on the seat next to him. He does have his CPL. He was arrested for DUI. His gun was taken and the cop told him that someone under ANY influence of alcohol (anything that will register on a breathalizer, I guess?) is not permitted to carry a loaded gun. He stated that the WA law says any measurable alcohol in a CPL holder's system means they are bound by the laws of someone who does not have a CPL? That's the first question, pertaining to carrying and alcohol. BTW, I will not carry a gun, or drive a car, after anything more than 1 drink (and typically some time in between).

I remarked that people without a CPL can have a gun and carry it openly. They both said that, without a CPL, WA residents are not allowed to openly carry a loaded gun in public. I haven't found the law that prohibits OC.

They were claiming that, if your gun can be seen, even accidentally, you are carrying illegally. I want to know what the laws are, so that I can appropriately worry about the slight chance of printing or carrying when I have had a beer 2 hours ago (or whatever). My point is, if these laws are true, I am going to become a bit more paranoid

 

[SAG0282]

The RCWs do not, to my recollection, address carrying a gun while drunk although there may be some application of reckless endangerment which would seem appropriate to me if you're DUI. I could not find anything in them after a cursory search.

Without a CPL, you cannot carry a loaded gun unless it's in one of the sporting or real property under user control exceptions, and with a CPL the law is far too gray for most of us to be happy with. The RCW neither forbids or permits it, and it would up to the officer to determine if you were "causing alarm" and could make an arrest based on that and it would be up to a judge to decide. Strictly speaking, the accidental viewing of your gun is not illegal and your friends are dead wrong......if bystanders say, "Yeah, it was an accident.......shirt rode up" because an accident could not possibly the manifestation of an intent to intimidate as required by the law it's not illegal;

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270

 

[Gene Beasley]

Would this be what you're looking for?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.098

RCW 9.41.098
Forfeiture of firearms — Disposition — Confiscation.

(1) The superior courts and the courts of limited jurisdiction of the state may order forfeiture of a firearm which is proven to be:
...

(e) In the possession of a person who is in any place in which a concealed pistol license is required, and who is under the influence of any drug or under the influence of intoxicating liquor, as defined in chapter 46.61 RCW;​

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

SAG, thanks for confirming what I thought was the case. I do not have any real reason to be concerned, just as I thought.

Thanks Gene. I think that pretty much explains the alcohol portion too.

I appreciate the help!

 

[expvideo]

Open carry is legal in washington, and it's not up to the officer's discretion. That law is the bain of open carry, and causes a lot of misunderstanding, but simply having a gun visible does not "warrants alarm for the safety of other persons". Visit http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/ for more details on open carry.

As for getting in trouble for someone seeing your CCW, that's an urban legend, it's not true in WA state. You can't get in trouble for printing or for accidentally exposing. Not at all. Any officer that arrests you for that should expect a lawsuit from you.

As for the drunk with a gun thing. It's a bad idea, but it's not illegal in WA state. It is not illegal, BUT it does give the police officer the right to confiscate the gun. You won't go to jail, but you'll lose your gun.

Another common misunderstanding about WA law is that "guns aren't allowed in a building that has a liqour license" or "a building that makes 50% of it's revenue from alcohol". That's not true. The law says "the parts of an establishment that are restricted to 21 years and older", so if there are minors there, you can carry.

Hope that helps clear things up.

 

[maxwell636]

This book might also have what you are looking for.

http://www.danddgunleather.com/washington_gun_rights.htm

I havent read it but it is on my list.

 

[glockman19]

Just go get a Utah Non-resident license and carry in WA.

 

[PaulBk]

Just go get a Utah Non-resident license and carry in WA.

Not sure that would work for a WA resident.

-Paul

 

[ChestyP]

It would NOT work

for a WA resident.

RCW9.41.073(1)(b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state. A license holder from another state must carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

A few years ago, a city attorney approached me asking for support in passing a law to make firearm possession outside the home illegal if the individual met the state definition of "under the influence." I told him I'd be happy to help, and that I expected him to accompany me to all the cop bars in town the day the law took effect. I haven't heard from him since.

 

[wqbang]

This book might also have what you are looking for.

http://www.danddgunleather.com/washi...gun_rights.htm

I second this. Get it and read it, then let your gun friends borrow it. Don't rely on hearsay when it comes to understanding the law. This book is the WA State gun owners friend and is indispensable.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Open carry is legal in washington, and it's not up to the officer's discretion....
As for the drunk with a gun thing. It's a bad idea, but it's not illegal in WA state. It is not illegal, BUT it does give the police officer the right to confiscate the gun. You won't go to jail, but you'll lose your gun.

Another common misunderstanding about WA law is that "guns aren't allowed in a building that has a liqour license" or "a building that makes 50% of it's revenue from alcohol". That's not true. The law says "the parts of an establishment that are restricted to 21 years and older", so if there are minors there, you can carry.

Hope that helps clear things up.

Thanks expvideo. That does clear things up.
I had always understood the law to allow OC.
I agree, it is a very bad idea to consume alcohol and carry. I figure, if I trust myself behind the wheel of an automotive killing machine, I am equally safe to make gun-related judgements. I also agree that the smell of alcohol on your breath leaves you with little credibility from a cop, at the least.

Concerning the other point you brought up.... I always ask myself if I would get carded going into an establishment. The answer determines if I will carry or not. Too bad you can't just BE SOBER and legally carry in a bar. I always have my pepper spray for those times I can't carry.

Just go get a Utah Non-resident license and carry in WA.

That does not work. Non-residents are bound by the laws of the state in which they are carrying.

I have considered that book. However, I thought all the information was also contained in another booklet, which the state distributed for free. My friend has a copy, but I have not been able to find one. The booklet I'm talking about is just the law, not explanation or added detail, which I think that book adds for better understanding.

 

[Cliff47]

There is a book out by Dave Workman that covers the Washington State laws as they pertain to gun ownership, and carry. Can't remember the title of the tome, but they can be obtained at the Second Amendment Foundation table at any of the Washington Arms Collectors shows, and most of the gun shops here in the western part of the state. A newly updated edition just was released not too long ago.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

One last question... My friends were not saying that OC was illegal for CPL holders, but that it was illegal for non-CPL holders. Any truth to that??

On a side note, they were saying that anyone could OC as long as the gun was unloaded and all ammo was out of reach

 

[Mainsail]

My understanding is that you DO NOT need a CPL to open carry and the gun can be loaded. If you don’t have a permit and are open carrying, when get into a vehicle, car, bus, whatever, you will have to unload the gun.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

One last question... My friends were not saying that OC was illegal for CPL holders, but that it was illegal for non-CPL holders. Any truth to that??

OC is not illegal in Washington, as far as I understand it, and a permit is not necessary, UNTIL you get into an automobile, in which case, a CPL is needed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, expvideo, since you OC quite a bit in Everett, right? ShooterMcGavin, opencarry.org has some excellent information and anecdotes of people OCing all over the country, so it might be good to check it out.

EDITED TO ADD:

Oops. Mainsail beat me to it.

 

[cpaspr]

Jumping back to the original post.

One guy had his gun taken when he was pulled over. He claims: it was loaded, on the seat next to him. He does have his CPL. He was arrested for DUI. His gun was taken and the cop told him that someone under ANY influence of alcohol (anything that will register on a breathalizer, I guess?) is not permitted to carry a loaded gun. He stated that the WA law says any measurable alcohol in a CPL holder's system means they are bound by the laws of someone who does not have a CPL

I'm assuming the HE in that last statement was the cop being paraphrased by the friend who had his gun taken.

From Gene Beasley:

RCW 9.41.098
Forfeiture of firearms — Disposition — Confiscation.

(1) The superior courts and the courts of limited jurisdiction of the state may order forfeiture of a firearm which is proven to be:
...
(e) In the possession of a person who is in any place in which a concealed pistol license is required, and who is under the influence of any drug or under the influence of intoxicating liquor, as defined in chapter 46.61 RCW;

As I read that, you can lose the gun if your are found to be under the influence. "Under the influence", in most states, means blowing the legal limit. It does not mean "if the breathalyzer picks up ANY hint of alcohol". So if (and it isn't known from the original post) the friend was under the legal limit, then he should not have had his gun confiscated. Impounded till trial perhaps, but if found not guilty he should get it back. If he was never found guilty of drunk driving, then his gun was illegally taken.

Note - I'm not an attorney, but that's how I'm reading the rules as they've been provided above.