Can These Be Safely Used? 45acp Undersized Bullet

[Load Master]

I purchased a number of pulled 45acp 230gr plated round nose bullets. Most of them are .44925 inch diameter. A number of rounds made with these bullets can easily have the bullet pushed into the case. I am worried they move easy enough to cause Bullet Setback.

Is there any reasonable way to use these or should I consider them junk?

 

[Reefinmike]

That stinks! If the bullets can be easily pushed into the case, I wouldn't even attempt to load them right now. No amount of crimp will make it safe to shoot.

How much do you have invested in these? lee makes undersized case sizing dies that are .002-.003 smaller. Should be a good fit for your bullets. Being as small as they are, they may not be extremely accurate in your pistol but should be safe to shoot if they pass the push test in the case. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/572212/lee-undersized-carbide-sizing-die-45-acp-45-gap

 

[mdi]

I too would be concerned about set back. I would prolly melt them down 'cause I cast most of my handgun bullets, but perhaps you could contact the manufacturer? Shooting them (with a good case to bullet fit) wouldn't be a problem with low velocity 45 ACP loads, but accuracy may suffer...

'Nuher thought; too much taper crimp may not be very visible, but result in loose bullets. Try the neck tension on a couple before crimping...

 

[Load Master]

Thanks Reefinmike for this suggestion. I didn't know that Lee had the special die. I might consider this. If I include the cost of the dies and what I paid for the bullets I'm still doing well price per bullet.

I'm not so sure that my shooting ability will show any disadvantages with the under sized bullets.

 

[FROGO207]

You could also try seating them with minimal flare or try with no flare at all. As long as the bullet seats without shaving it and does not set back with reasonable pressure it should function OK. Might not be super accurate but should work reasonably if you can seat them without getting setback. You could get a spare flare plug and chuck it in a drill then using fine sandpaper gently make the step/inside flare smaller and then try this after some material is removed to see if it works. Go more if it is not enough. The "crimp " is just to remove any flare, it does not control neck tension, that is produced through the initial sizing (small) and whatever flare (open back up) you use to open the neck after. I would size a case and start with measuring it to see if your die will make them small enough to use first.

 

[Slamfire]

Find a tighter die and reduce the case neck tension. Who the heck made these things? A diameter of 0.449 is insanely off for a 452 bullet.

You can shoot as many 0.449 bullets down a 0.452 diameter barrel as you want and never have a pressure problem. Accuracy might not be the best, but since it is a handgun, does a couple of MOA really matter? The greatest risk as I see is not enough neck tension and having the bullet pushed back during feed, and that could spike pressures.

Now if you were pushing a 0.452 bullet down a 0.449 barrel, that could be a real pressure problem.

You know, someone out there with a 44-40 might want those bullets.

 

[2011redrider]

Sounds like the 2000 I got from American Reloading. I could reduce the expander die to get enough neck tension to load them. Havent shot any yet, I'm sure it will effect accuracy.

 

[Load Master]

I'm going to take Reefinmike suggestion on getting the tighter resizing die. I don't want to chance bullet setback.

Thanks for the suggestions and thoughts.

Even with no neck flare the bullet is still loose.

 

[Dudedog]

I am guessing you are using them a a semi auto.
Some brass has thicker walls than others so sorting brass by head stamp might help.
I would make up dummy rounds to test and run them thru the pistol(s) to make sure I had no set back.
Even then a piece of brass with thinner walls would probably cause trouble so unless you have all the same brass....



If it was me I would send them back to where I got them if at all possible.

Maybe you could work up a light load that would function if they were seated really deep? (assume worst case flush) Might have to buy a light recoil spring but that is probably cheaper than a custom sizing die.

I don't want to chance bullet setback.

Otherwise I might just be tempted to send them to somebody who would melt them down or maybe could size them down to fit .44 cal. (lee push thru size die maybe)

Bummer they are to small.
Would you care to mention where/what brand?

 

[Reefinmike]

Some brass has thicker walls than others so sorting brass by head stamp might help.

If it was me I would send them back to where I got them if at all possible.

Good idea on using sorted brass, The thicker the better in OP's case. I haven't loaded 45 in a while but I dont remember there being any excessively thick cases as with many other calibers(cbc, ppu, s&b, GFL, etc). Just the thin remington brass. I would sort that stuff out and avoid use with undersized bullets. I love RP brass for my oversized lead bullets tho...

Op said they were pulls. I doubt he can return them as he knowingly took a risk. I forget the name of the company selling them, but several months ago there was some place selling plated pulls for less than half of what you could buy them for from xtreme or RMR. I bet $2 that they are from that company. I was very tempted to buy some but I held off. My cast bullets are free(nearly).

 

[nettlle]

You may want to try loading a few at first and check for leading in your barrel.

 

[LiveLife]

You can try squishing the bullet in a vise to see if you can increase the bullet diameter to .451" and check for neck tension.

You will however end up with RNFP instead of RN bullets.

 

[jmorris]

Looking at your photo they look like pulled bullets, that were swaged down In the case last time they were loaded.

Measure up closer to the ogive and see if they get to .451-.452 there. If they do you might be able to seat them deeper in the case without them moving around.

That said I would not use them with a suppressor as they might tumble and accuracy is sure to be less than stellar.

Oh and nice to see someone using good tools and wearing gloves, now get a cup to put all of those pens, pencils and markers in

 

[springer99]

If you only have a few hundred, I'd just throw them out. The accuracy of undersized, plated bullets isn't worth wasting powder and primers on. The cost of obtaining a special, smaller-sized resizing die to keep them from creeping out in the cases, isn't worth the hassle. If you have thousands of them, consider melting them down and making fishing sinkers.

 

[edwardware]

Resize with a Lee thru-sizer and call then 44 magnum bullets!

 

[Blue68f100]

Those look like pulled bullet, that were crimped using the LFCD. Which sized the bullets down. They are too small to be of any use except plinking.Do not expect any accuracy off them being that under size. If not many I would toss them into the meltdown pot.

 

[murf]

Screw the bullet seating die into your press upside down. Insert bullet nose down. Smack bullet base with a punch and hammer. Check for increase in diameter.

murf

 

[ReloaderFred]

I know what I'd do with them. I'd put then through one of my .451" bullet swaging dies and bring them back up to the proper diameter. Bumping them up that little amount would keep the plating intact, and I'd have usable bullets.

Without swaging dies, they're too small to use in .45 caliber firearms, so I'd smash them with a hammer to break the plating, and then smelt them down and use them to cast bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[mdi]

Just a thought; You are going to buy another die so you can load some undersize bullets? Do you ever plan on using correctly sized bullets and how will the smaller die effect those? How many of these out of tolerance bullets do you have? I would make sure my components are correct before I buy tools/equipment to make them right/usable...

 

[TimSr]

I'll second the opinion that these are pulls, and were originally over crimped to the point of swaging down the bullet size. Try measuring bullet above the line where they were crimped before, as they might still have a section that is .451-.452". If so, you can load them, with no flare, and they probably won't set back. If not, I would scrap them unless you have enough of them that buying new tools to reform them is worthwhile.

 

[judgedelta]

The OP said, in his first post that these are "pulled bullets". You pays your money and takes your chances. These could be considered extended-length boat-tail bullets. You will also be taking chances if you try to shoot them, in my opinion...

 

[2011redrider]

Bullets in question were from American Reloading. I have 2000 of them from Jan and Feb orders. Had not measured them till I saw this post. Called American Reloading and they are sending replacements with a shipping label to send back the defective ones. Glad to see they are standing up for their products and making it right, even 7-8 months later.

 

[LiveLife]

Sounds like the 2000 I got from American Reloading.

Bullets in question were from American Reloading ... they are sending replacements with a shipping label to send back the defective ones

Good to hear.

I wonder if OP maybe able to exchange bullets.

 

[Dudedog]

good to hear they will make it right.

 

[2011redrider]

Good to hear.

I wonder if OP maybe able to exchange bullets.

Im sure he will, I sent him a PM in case he misses this post.