Canadian Snipers

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Mark Tyson

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[Article from last year]

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International News

Canadian ammo falls short, says top sniper

STEPHEN THORNE

07/10/2002
The Globe and Mail

A world-record shot by a Canadian sniper detachment in Afghanistan could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued by the Canadian military, says the shooter, who used U.S. rounds for the landmark kill.

The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres. The U.S. rounds, they discovered, "fly farther, faster," said Corporal "Bill", a 26-year-old native of Fogo Island, Nfld.

The two-man Canadian team, outfitted with British desert fatigues and an array of equipment from all over the world, killed an al-Qaeda fighter from 2,430 metres on the second shot.

The first blew a bag from the hand of their target, who was walking on a road.

"He didn't even flinch," said Bill, who spoke on condition that his real name not be used. "We made a correction and the next round hit exactly where we wanted it to. Well, a bit to the right."

The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially credited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shahi Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

"They trusted us to do our job, without question," Bill's partner, Master Corporal "James" said of his U.S. commanders.

The 31-year-old native of Kingsville, Ont., also asked that his identity not be revealed.

Bill and James said they were successful with several shots from 2,400 metres or more.

"Shots out that far are 60 per cent skill and 40 per cent luck, or vice versa," Bill said. "Usually, it takes two or three rounds, sometimes five.

"Normally, a sniper wouldn't take that many shots, but they were out so far we felt confident they couldn't tell where we were."

Soldier of Fortune magazine estimated the number of kills made by the Canadians after talking to several U.S. soldiers in Kandahar for a cover story in its August edition.

The snipers themselves will not confirm the figure.
They have, however, confirmed more than one brush with death as a result of so-called friendly fire.

In one attack, Bill and James found themselves looking up at a large dark object screaming out of the sky directly above them.

It was a 220-kilogram U.S. bomb.

"We hit the deck and covered our heads with our hands," James said.

The bomb landed 30 metres away, nose in, and never went off.

Bill and James looked at each other in disbelief.

"By the grace of God, it was a dud," Bill said. "It landed 15 metres from the B company [U.S. 101st Airborne Division] trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing."

"Unless you have walked in their shoes or been part of a Special Forces unit, you cannot understand the closeness in proximity that a sniper is to the enemy," said Captain Paul Madej, Operation Enduring Freedom chaplain.

James, Bill and three other Canadians have been nominated for a high combat award given by the United States military -- the Bronze Star, two of the awards with V's for Valor, marking exceptional bravery.

They earned the respect of their U.S. counterparts after helping rescue dozens of paratroopers pinned down by enemy fire.
 
>The bomb landed 30 metres away, nose in, and never went off.

Well, thank the gods for our bad quality control and shoddy workmanship.

These Canadians better stop shooting off their mouths about having .50 caliber weapons; CA may pre-emptively invade them to guard against the threat of WMDs* that can reach the US.



*Weapons of Moose Destruction
 
Does anyone know what ever happened to the Canadian sniper teams that were awarded Silver Stars for their assistance in Afghanistan?
Remember Canadian officials didn't allow them to accept them.

Any word on what came of it?
 
I guess the guy gets some sort of Darwin Award for not hiding and/or running when the first shot blew his bag out of his hand. Anyone know if the Canadians are using bolt actions or semi autos?
 
Dang ...

Those Canucks are an awfully good shot. It must be sumpthin' they put in the maple syrup up there ...
 
Answers to a few questions:

bigjim:
How you you tell if a guy is a combatant at 2400 plus meters?

Our rules of engagement (ROE) for Operation Anaconda were anybody in the Shah-i-Kowt valley were declared hostile combatants and could be engaged on sight. The only persons in the area were either Al-Qaeda or Taliban forces. As the operation began, even more forces began moving into the area. By the time the Canadian sniper team was inserted, the operation was well under way and anybody in the area was actively engaged in combat.

p35
Anyone know if the Canadians are using bolt actions or semi autos?

The team in question was using a Barrett M82A1 for the primary weapon, with the spotter using an M-16A2.

veloce851
Does anyone know what ever happened to the Canadian sniper teams that were awarded Silver Stars for their assistance in Afghanistan?

As far as I know, COL Wiercinski issued the awards prior to his departure. Whether or not the Canadian government allowed them to officially accept them, I'm not sure. As I recall, he did give them the medals though.

By the way, the soldiers of 3rd PPCLI (3rd Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry) were excellent soldiers. Their infantrywomen did a great job too. their commander, LTC Stroughn (sp?), was full of piss and vinegar. He was definitly not a fan of our ROE at Kandahar Airfield. The Canadian gov't supported a more open ROE, without the necessity of an obvious hostile act or intent that the American ROE required.

One night during Anaconda two Afghanis placed an AT (anti-tank) mine on a road, killing one of our Afghan allies, and injuring two more. One of the injured was the younger brother of the local Afghan Military Force commander, Commander Gulali. Well, Gulali wanted to raze the entire village near the minestrike. We were able to talk him down, and watched the village for a couple hours. We spun up an Apache, divirted the C-17's to Pakistani airspace, and fired some 81mm Illum rounds (my first and only combat live-fire mission). The Canadians watched the area with their Coyote vehicles and manuevered a squad to the area. We saw two guys with what was obviously another TM-21 AT mine walking through some garden areas. The American ROE wouldn't allow us to engage because we hadn't seen them put the mine in place. The Canadians satisfied their ROE requirements due to the fact it was obvious these guys put the mine there. LTC Stroughn had his men fire towards the men to pin them down til his squad could manuever into play. Unfortunately, the gunfire drew the villagers out of their houses, and the two men were able to get away by getting close to the crowd of innocent people and blending in with them. All in all, it was quite an interesting night. I've still got some video footage of the Apache gun camera watching the two guys walking around with a landmine.

Frank
 
I posted about this last year when I found out about it on the old TFL.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=121535

The ammo being used was RBCD on field trials in Afghanistan provided to the U.S. Military by http://www.lemasltd.com/

Canadian snipers us the McMillan Tac-50, which is a model with a removable stock. It is the exclusive .50 BMG rifle used by the Canadians, unlike the U.S. that uses no fewer than a dozen different .50 BMG rifles.
http://www.snipersparadise.com/articles/2430kill.htm
http://www.mcmillanrifles.com/50_CAL_BMG.htm

Rifle02.jpg
 
The Canadian Protocol thing ...

Just to keep the Bronze Star issue in perspective, you must remember that the Canadian rule preventing the snipers from officially being able to wear the Star has been around for quite a while. Canadian soldiers cannot accept decorations from another country unless they are presented by the head of state of that country, in this case the United States President. This rule was put into place so that Canada could have a recognised system of awards and merits separate from the British military from which the Canadian military had evolved. Not permitting the snipers to accept the Bronze Star, in this case, was not an intended snub to the United States military. It is just an old rule that the Canadian government chose not to ignore. Those that are familiar with the Canadian Forces know that they are pretty annal as far as rules and regulations go ...
 
I had a Canadian sniper team attached to my company for several days during Operation Anaconda. Not only were they highly competent, but they were totally focused on accomplishing the mission. On a slightly different note, I was impressed with all of the members of 3 PPCLI and always loked forward to working with them.

One point of clarification regarding OEF VET's comment on the ROE for Ananconda. The initial ROE was the typical, restrictive ROE. The tactical situation on the ground was dramatically different from what was expected and the ROE was changed. (I did not want certain people to infer that the U.S. Military landed in the valley with the intent to kill every Afghani in sight.)
 
"...CA may pre-emptively invade them..." Not to worry. The only people in CA that even know where Canada is are a few hockey players and our exported tv and movie people. Pam Anderson, Mike Fox, and a bunch of others that've been sworn to secrecy. The rest of the population wouldn't know where to find us.
"... Canadian soldiers cannot accept decorations from another country unless they are presented by the head of state of that country..." Who told you that? CF troopies awarded foreign decorations cannot accept them or wear them unless our stupid bunch of socialist, rat offspring of unmarried parents, rectal orifi in Ottawa say it's ok. It has nothing to do with who presents it. It took 8 years, I think it was, for the idiots to say it was ok for 2 PPCLI to wear the Presidential Unit Citation they got for Kap Yong. Same Party in power then too.
 
Sunray, you just had to ask didn't cha ...

Check the website "Directorate of History and Heritage", (Canada), "Honours and Awards". See section "Foreign Honours to Canadians" Para 4. The whole section is an interesting read. It talks about why the rules are in place and under what other conditions a Canadian can receive an award from a foreign government ...

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/infoindex_e.asp?cat=3
 
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you can't wear or formaly accept a furren decoration or order without govt approval, thats the bare bones of it. Sunray (is that Major or Minor?) is right on this one.

of course, British Empire derived militaries don't tent to have as many medals or orders as some other countries.

and we all know how the Canadian Govt Feels about the Armed Forces (no killing allowed) and the USA. thank the Gods I got out in time, without my pension mind you.)
 
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