Capacity or Reliability?

[rayp]

Have you noticed now that "micro-nines" are becoming more common magazine capacity--the "go to" and defining reason given for the superiority of semi-autos over revolvers--doesn't seem all that important. Many of the "micro-nines" only have a magazine capacity of six rounds, the same or one more round over most revolvers. So given the level playing field regarding bullet count, what firearm is more reliable? Who has ever read instructions for their S&W J frame recommending that at least 200 rounds need to be shot to "break in" their gun? Just saying?

 

[ugaarguy]

You're ignoring that the single stack micro semi-autos are significantly thinner than even a J Frame size revolver, and that even micro sized semi-autos are still significantly faster to reload than revolvers.

Asserting that magazine capacity is the primary reason for the switch to semi-autos was only true in the latter half of the 20th century. Most early semi-autos had 7 to 9 round single column magazines. The switch to semi-autos like the M1911 and P-08 Luger over revolvers was originally to gain faster follow up shots and faster reloads.

 

[Bobson]

I think the primary advantage that a "micro-9" has over a J-frame sized revolver is ease/speed of reloading the pistol. A smaller advantage is size: a pistol is pretty much always thinner than a revolver, which helps with concealment. But you're right as far as reliability goes: There's no beating a quality revolver on reliability.

Still, I personally would prefer a pistol - even if round count were identical. This is assuming, of course, we're talking about a quality, reliable pistol. It won't be "perfectly reliable" (like a revolver would be), but it will be very close (maybe one jam/ftf/fte every several hundred rounds). That's good enough for me, given the other advantages it has.

 

[481]

Taking the type of gun out of it -reliability always. I'll always take a reliable six or seven over a hitchy 12 to 15, but that it is probably not what the OP is after.

If I can find a semi-auto that is reasonably reliable (for my standards), then I'll take it over the revolver for its slimmer profile.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

My sub compact 9mm holds 7+1. Xtra mag=15rounds. You carrying 2 speed loaders?
I'll keep my semi auto.
I admit, the trend towards smaller and smaller guns makes little sense to me unless you just can't conceal something bigger.

 

[bannockburn]

I think reliabity trumps capacity any day of the week. That being said the flatter, trimmer design of the semi- auto pistol, (especially in terms of concealed carry), along with faster reloading capabilities, give it a slight edge when comparing it to a similar round count revolver.

 

[Manny]

I have enormous confidence in the snubby revolvers I've used over time. Micro sized pistols, not so much. My hammerless KLCR will fire in direct contact with an assailant, no worries about getting pushed out of battery or getting jammed by a failure to eject. That certainty and simple manual of arms endears it to me and trumps the capacity and flatness advantage of the semi-!autos. YMMV.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Capacity or Reliability?

I learned long ago that reliability is number one. It HAS to work.

With that said it is true a clean well maintained revolver with good ammo is about as reliably as anything can be... for those 5,6,7 or so shots it holds.

Does that make semi-autos worthless? No.

Guns like Glocks, with good ammo, are over the long run more reliable than revolvers. You can go 500 to 1000 rounds in a Glock (if good ammo is used) and not one jam or malfunction. Revolvers can't do that.

But at least for CCW, I am more concerned about the first few shots and WHERE THEY LAND than about the 10th or 15th or whatever round cause it's hits that count, early, quick, and accurate hits on the vitals.

The military, on the other hand, is more concerned about firepower and their idea of reliability is mean time between failure (MTBF). That is correct in the calculus of military combat, but for simple self defense, reliability for those first few shots is more important.

So what do I pack? Glock 26 and S&W J frame. I pack 'em for reliability, simplicity, power, and size. But shot capacity is low on the list.

Deaf

 

[vongh]

I cant help but ask. Why cant a revolver go 500 to 1000 rounds? I have a colt trooper III, while not concealed carry material. It has many k of rounds through it. I have auto pistols that are reliable also, so i'm not a revolver only man

 

[sgt127]

What Deaf said.

Scenario: You are at the mall, you hear shots fired near the food court. You going towards it or away from it?

If you plan on going towards the trouble, bring as much gun and ammo as you go can. That would be a good auto. The "chance" of it crapping out in that one scenario is very remote.

Scenario 2: You get jumped, knocked to the ground and two idiots are stomping you while screaming give me the money. You manage to drag your gun out of your waistband. Upside down, one handed, crappy grip, with blood on your hand. That's where a revolver comes into its own.

I carry and appreciate both. But, for a purely defensive weapon, its very hard to beat a good revolver. As a matter of fact, I have to carry a Glock at work, and, it's a fine gun. But, I've carried the same S&W 642 as a back up for 25 years.

 

[highpower]

While I have way more revolvers than pistols, my go to carry gun is my Shield. With either 8 or 9 rounds on tap I have nearly twice the capacity of a J frame Smith. My Colt Detective Special is even larger than the Chiefs Special.

The Shield is thinner and the stock grip is easier to hang on to. If you install larger grips on the little Smith it becomes even harder to conceal. In the nearly 500 rounds I have put through it, I have had zero failures of any type, so I would say that reliability is not an issue.

Even if it wasn't light years easier to reload, which it is, I would still prefer the Shield over any revolver.

 

[ku4hx]

I have a buddy who owns a Luger his dad passed on to him. It's in beautiful shape with maybe 95% of the bluing still in tact and no rust; just a gorgeous piece of military history . It has only one magazine, but it seems to be fine and the spring will pop the cartridges up as it should. And it holds a full seven rounds in the magazine. It's problem is it has no firing pin so no matter how many rounds are in the magazine it's noticeably unreliable, firing wise, for a pistol.

I'll opt for reliability every time.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I like and carry/train with both. My preference is a micro .380 when I can't have my Px4 SC or G26 as the teeny tiny 9mm's kick too much to control in a mag dump to center mass or 4X.

Small 9mm's/single stacks that are thin, small, quickly reloaded and reliable are The Bomb if you can handle that in training and rapid fire. I think they tend to be easier to carry and control than a .38 Special +P revolver but favor the revolver for pocket carry.

I think folks underestimate the security of having a firing grip on the gun while it's still in the pocket. The ultimate dirty trick far short of brandishing giving a shot thru the coat pocket or a lighting draw from a front pants pocket.

A revolver shines at that.

VooDoo

 

[BSA1]

"micro-nines" can have a pretty snappy recoil depending on the size of the grip, their weight and power of the cartridge (example high velocity +P) which makes proper grip important to avoid having the second or other rounds jamming due to limp wristing.

A revolver is much more forgiving and if you can pull the trigger will go bang every time.

So in strict terms of reliability I give the edge to a revolver. VooDoo is taking me way back to my revolver copper days when I carried a J-frame S&W in my coat pocket during the winter. it was a "tactical" trick before "tactical" became cool.

However as pointed out there are other factors that should be consider such as how well the gun conceals and comfort of carry. My Seecamp LWS beats all revolvers for carry in the front pants pocket.

 

[jrdolall]

I have a 642 Airweight and that thing is BRUTAL with +P ammo. So bad that I no longer even try to shoot it. It is fine with standard pressure ammo.
I have no issue with my pocket 9mm guns as far as recoil is concerned.
I enjoy shooting revolvers but they are not as slim as a semi so I don't carry one.

I also must ask, Why can't a revolver fire 500-1000 rounds without an issue? I have at least four revolvers that have done that many times over including the Airweight. I do have a couple of older revolvers (100 years or so) that tend to be unreliable as well as a Brazilian revolver.

 

[Kleanbore]

I place reliability first and foremost, shootability a close second, and I insist upon the power of a .38 Special or 9MM. I like at least 7+1--or a second firearm.

Those rule out extremely small size.

I am not really a J-Frame fan for primary carry, for reasons having to do with trigger pull and capacity.

Yes, it is a good idea to shoot any new semiautomatic enough to make sure it works before you start to depend on it.

It is also a good idea to shoot any defensive firearm enough to maintain perishable skills.

 

[Tallball]

I prefer to have my 38 snub in my pocket.

But I don't feel undergunned if it's my micronine instead.

 

[MCgunner]

I pocketed my Kel Tec P11, a double stack 9, 24/7 and practiced constantly with it when I lived in Corpus, home of the drug cartels. It is a reliable, pretty powerful choice pushing a 115 grain carry load to 1263 fps and shoots that load into 3.5" at 25 yards from the bench which satisfied my desires for self defense accuracy.

I've moved away from that awful place to a rural area and now pocket my 5 shot .38 revolver. It doesn't carry any better than the 9, but I like revolvers, always have. I just felt the need for firepower in the city and when I go to a city, I usually load the 9 and a .45 for the belt, but really, I think my .357 on my hip backed up by my .38 in my pocket is a good combo. Hell, that's 10 rounds, 11 if I chose to carry the six shooter on the belt. I don't expect to be attacked by a company of Taliban in Houston, say. I'm just interested in proper self defense and I think a five shot revolver, especially when backed up by another 5 shot revolver, is plenty. I only carried the 9mm before and it only carries 11 rounds. When just around here, I usually just have my .38 on me, add the .357 when I run to town...a town of 2500 folks, not really an area I feel at risk in, but you never know. And, it is on the interstate between Houston and San Antonio, so who knows what sort of trash might pull off there to steal some money for the trip. And, after all, the little 19 ounce polymer .357 isn't a problem at all to wear on the belt.

 

[SDGlock23]

Well it's more than just capacity alone, it's MUCH faster reloads as well. I had a CM9 and it was a very good gun, it's not just six rounds, it's six plus one in the chamber so really it's 7 rounds plus better sights and quicker reloads. I found the CM9 easier to shoot than any J-frame .38 as recoil was very mild and smooth, most J-frames have a little bit of snappiness to them if they're light enough to pocket carry, at least with +P 38's. I also found it easier to hit 25yd poppers with the CM9, maybe mostly due to the better sights in conjunction with easy recoil. I also find the slimmer profile (no cylinder bulge) of the smaller semi autos to pocket easier and conceal better, extra mags lay flat in the pocket and happen much faster than dealing with a revolver speed loader, generally speaking for 99.999% of humans.

I have nothing against J-frames at all, but I will say that I don't buy into them being more reliable as I've personally had several instances of an incomplete powder burn leaving enough unburnt powder behind that it locked up the cylinder like a vault...well nearly. Granted it's fairly rare, but it does happen. Others have had a bullet jump crimp, which is bad news as well.

As long as the pocket nine (or pocket whatever, I carry a pocket .40) cycles the ammo, there's really no concern and you test that before carrying that particular type of ammo. If a semi auto jams it's also much faster to clear the problem, if a J-frame gums up due to unburnt powder or a bullet that jumped crimp, it's likely out of the fight for good.

 

[oneounceload]

To ME, both styles are equal in reliability. What it comes down to, again for ME, is the trigger. I am not one who feels the need to carry multiple guns and reloads, etc., etc... BUT in order to avoid doing that, I need a trigger that I can shoot smoothly (and thus accurately) Certain small 9s do better than the J frame, some do not. Find which works best for you and go accordingly

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I wanna go back to that statement about revolvers not being able to shoot 500 -1000 rounds without a failure. I'll agree in that I have a couple thousand thru my G26 and never has it missed a lick.

But sincerely I have shot tens of thousands of rounds thru revolvers ranging from my Ruger LCR to S&W M19's and such and *never* had a revolver fail to go bang. I do like both pistol or revolver depending on dress and circumstances and carry both/either.

Have I just had good luck?

VooDoo

 

[sgt127]

I think the 1000 rounds through a gun was referring to no cleaning. If I had to bet, a good service grade auto would go more rounds before you had to clean it than a revolver.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Ah...I'd agree with that. Now it makes sense...

Thank You!

VooDoo

 

[short barrel]

Although I prefer a .38, we ought to be aware that when comparing muzzle energy with any given weight bullet, and any given loading (+P or standard), the 9mm has nearly twice the energy. Of course we can't compare exact bullet weights, because the nine is usually a 124 or 147, but there nearest counter part in .38 is 125 and 158. But close enough to show the vastly superior energy of the nine.

 

[MCgunner]

Well it's more than just capacity alone, it's MUCH faster reloads as well.

Just MHO, of course, but I figure if you have to reload at typical self defense distances aand in most typical self defense scenarios, you're dead. I carry a speed strip of .38s for the pocket revolver and it will also work in the .357. I don't carry it for combat reloading, as I have never been in combat, but for spares after the fact. Occasionally, I'll shoot a water moccasin, once a coyote, and then there's the occasional hog in the trap that must be put down with my .38, nice to be able to top up and go after the shot. I can replace the round in the speed strip when I get back to the house.