Cartridge Conversion in a Brasser?

[bigstick6017555]

brass frames are not the problem, it is the abuse of the brass frames from the unknowing that is the problem. abuse any firearm above its designed potential and you got a problem.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Well, what's the worst that would happen? The cylinder won't burst, being steel. Worst case, it blows the barrel off the front of the gun, right? More likely it just stretches things and the cylinder gap gets big and at some point that causes a problem where either the cylinder moves forward and the hammer won't set off a cap or the cylinder moves forward and the hand won't rotate it anymore.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Where to begin?

A 44 caliber round ball over 25 grains of powder in a C&B cylinder will not develop the same pressure as a 45 Colt loaded with 25 grains of powder and a bullet weighing around 140 grains because of the greater bearing surface of the bullet against the bore as compared to a round ball. In addition, a bullet is mechanically crimped in place in a crimp groove, while the ball is only held in the chamber of a Cap & Ball revolver by friction. So couple both of these facts together and there will be more resistance to the bullet moving than the ball moving, which will result in higher pressure being developed in the cartridge.

Here is the pamphlet that came with one of my R&D cylinders that I use in one of my steel framed Remmies. It is pretty plain that they do not want their cylinders used in a brass framed revolver.

I only shoot my conversion cylinder Remmies with Black Powder, I don't think I have ever fired them with Smokeless. At least not that I can remember.

Regarding 'safe' Smokeless ammo to shoot in them, notice R&D recommends only 'Cowboy Ammunition'. The problem with that is there are no official SAAMI specs regarding Cowboy ammo. They just don't exist. Cowboy ammo is what ever the manufacturer chooses. I can tell you that most commercial Cowboy Ammo is loaded hotter than what I often hear at a CAS match. Some shooters load down their 45s to a level that would embarrass a 38. In addition, the 750 fps to 850 fps velocity stated on the pamphlet is also meaningless. Cylinders burst from too much pressure, not too much velocity. While velocity may be related to pressure, it is possible to achieve the same velocity with widely varying pressures, depending on the specific powder used, bullet weight, and the phase of the moon.








There you have it.

No conversion cylinders in brass frames for me, and if I was going to shoot Smokeless in them, it would not be barn burners. I would stay down near the minimum to mid level of pressure.

 

[MCgunner]

Howell recommended cast bullets only under 1000 fps. That seemed odd to me since it didn't give the weight of the bullet. Also didn't give the barrel length. Odd. But, since my pet .45ACP load pushes a 200 grain cast (Lee tumble lube) bullet 950 fps out of my Ruger KP90DC's 4.5" barrel, I figure it's safe and have fired probably a thousand rounds out of it since getting that cylinder and the gun, one of the Pietta 5.5" all steel Remmies, is tight and shooting fine. It's just as accurate with the .45ACP as will ball and hits same POI/POA which is amazing to me. I can fire up .45ACP and clean up ain't a pain, either.

I didn't want a .45 Colt. I have more .45ACP brass and it's cheaper than Colt brass. I used to pick it up on the club range when I was in a club. Nobody tosses .45Colt brass. Besides, I have a 4 5/8" stainless Blackhawk in .45 Colt, didn't need another gun to fire .45 Colt.

 

[CraigC]

The cartridge conversion places greater stress against the breechface than the percussion cylinder. The percussion cylinder's backthrust is limited to the arbor. The cartridge head thrusts directly against the frame with greater leverage, along with greater pressure.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Well just remember, the arbor is a main structure and is there no matter what system is being used. It also (in either case) is a stressed member of the frame and as such, (as CraigC and DJ illustrate) because of the added stress from the efficiency of the cartridge, the brass can't support it and (as I posted earlier) imprinting will be pretty much immediate.
In a steel frame, the forces are contained and there again, the tinsel strength of the arbor plays a major roll as the support for the cylinder which the brass frame will eventually lose the battle at the threads.

Mike

 

[TTv2]

In theory, if you load the same amount of black powder in the cartridge as you do when you're shooting with percussion cap and ball, and use some filler to compress the charge under the ball, you should be okay. I don't think the brass frames are worth it considering the steel frames aren't much more and are much stronger and are what's RECOMMENDED by the manufacturers.

Strong enough to shoot light smokeless loads and avoid the mess and potential damage to a brass framed gun.