Case selection

[Walkalong]

Despite being small ball powders, a full power load with True Blue, HS-6, or AA #5, even though they are "dense" powders, will be near 100% load density and a double charge will overflow the case. Most any medium speed powder will fill the case enough to do so unless downloaded too much. Unique is a bulky powder and will also fill the case well.

It's the fast, small flake or flattened ball, powders that don't need much powder weight wise that can get us into trouble because a case will hold a double charge. Titegroup is "high energy" (Double based with a High Nitro content) and fast, so it doesn't take much weight wise and the 9MM case will hold a double charge.

There are a lot of Titegroup fans out there, I'm just not one of them.

 

[mstreddy]

Gyrene,
Some good advice above. I'll tell you that for most of my handgun loads I don't worry about mixing cases. I do try to keep my revolver loads separated by head stamps, but for 9MM it's all one huge mixed up batch. As mentioned above there are some brands with a step and some folks do prefer some brands over others. But, I'd say, pick up all the free range brass you can get and clean, load, shoot, repeat.

For rifles, I do sort by head stamp but I pretty much use any brand, just load in batches. One thing to look out for is that a lot of 223/5.56 brass out there has crimped primer pockets. Some 308 does as well, so keep an eye out for that.
And Semper Fi!

 

[Fire_Moose]

A little experiment I did recently. If there is a difference in case capacity, I'd say it makes very little difference on paper. Maybe neck tension is more significant than case capacity? The cases were all annealed which is supposed to create similar neck tension in all.



You certainly can do that but I never have and probably never will. Fifty rounds over a 1.7 grain powder weight range? Try fifty rounds in a 378 or 460 Weatherby some time or even some of the lesser magnums. Not only will you go broke feeding it but your shoulder may need some attention afterwards. No; for initial load workup, I can get just as useful information by making three lots of three cartridges. When you believe you have a promising load, then is the time to make up more cartridges with that load and perhaps tweak it with different primers, etc.

Whoa calm down there, I just pulled random numbers outta my arse.

 

[Fire_Moose]

In .5gr increments? I've been reading some articles and it mentions measuring the web and case mouth for expansion and how the temp plays a role in that loads developed in colder weather may not be safe in hot weather. Just wondering what you're looking at.

Just pulled random numbers. Ya .5 to start with then maybe .2 when you got an idea of how they shoot and want to zero in on your charge.

I've heard of temp sensitive powders but I thought it came down to loss of preformance, not safety....

 

[Fishslayer]

Hi Guys,

Initial post here so please be patient. I've done a search and read the initial Lyman section on "following a recipe" etc. The thing I'm struggling with is that when I look at most recipes they state winchester cases etc. but I see starline and "brass guys" cases for sale and I'm wondering if I can use them in place of winchester or federal cases because I've heard starline is high quality etc. I'm just starting out and want to be safe.

Can someone clarify this for me or reference another manual / authority (not just "you'll be fine)?

Thank you,

Aaron

Starline is the gold (brass? ) standard of handgun brass. Buy direct from their website & you get the best price plus free shipping ro boot.

For most handgun range fodder then pickups will do just fine. I use both. I do sort by headstamp mainly because, as has been mentioned, wall thickness does vary from brand to brand. I load a lot of cast bullets and uniform wall thickness helps avoid shaving lead and gives a uniform crimp as well. For my full house magnum rounds I go with the Starline.

Due to it's small case volume 9mm is a bit more sensitive to changes in charge weight & OAL. You need to understand the relationships of these. Start conservative & work up. You will almost always find your best accuracy well short of max pressure.

 

[Reloadron]

Just pulled random numbers. Ya .5 to start with then maybe .2 when you got an idea of how they shoot and want to zero in on your charge.

I've heard of temp sensitive powders but I thought it came down to loss of preformance, not safety....

This is a pretty good read on the subject; Reloading Ammo: Smokeless Powder and Temperature Sensitivity.

Ron

 

[Blue68f100]

Yes, Low density powders require more volume for the same weight. Unique is one but I dislike it because of its poor metering properties. I prefer ball powders or fine flake powders like WSF for 9mm, and 40cal. I use WST for my 45acp loads. I have not used 700-x or 800-x but I hear they are a high loft but meter poorly. I load all my handgun ammo on a LNL-AP so doing the tap dance with the powder dispenser is not a option. The tap dance is sequence you do with the powder dispenser handle to get the powder to settle down for a more consistent drop. This is not a option on a AP where the machine operates the dispenser.

 

[Reloadron]

I guess I'm off track then. So Unique would be better for beginning 9mm in that it fills the case making double charges or higher grains visibly apparent?

A good way to look at this is the old question, which weighs more a pound of lead or a pound of feathers? They both weigh the same but we know a pound of feathers will occupy a greater volume than a pound of lead. The lead being more dense than the feathers. So it is about density. Smokeless powders all have a density and there are density charts published for smokeless powders. Here is an example of a smokeless powder density chart or commonly called a VMD (Volume Metered Density) chart. This is a good link for a VMD explanation and how we can apply the basic math.

The Volume Measured Density (VMD) of a powder is the volume in cc's (cubic centimeter) that one grain of powder occupies. This can be used to calculate the dipper, disk cavity or powder measure setting required to obtain a desired weight of powder.

Depending on a powders density some powders are easier to spot an overcharge than others and while this is nice it is not all that simple and should not be used to choose a powder, not in my opinion anyway. You should be choosing a powder based on best performance for your gun. You try and work up different loads using assorted primers, bullets, brass and powders. The quest for the perfect combination of components. Reloading good and accurate ammunition means paying attention to detail and being focused on the task at hand. When throwing or weighing powder charges the hand loader must have all of his attention on the task at hand. Complacency can get a gun blown up or much worse. The "worse" is the very ugly part. Just means remaining focused, like hearing sight picture, sight alignment over and over again.

Oh yeah, least I forget. My understanding is that powder manufacturers allow themselves a VMD of something like +/- 16% lot to lot so just because one or eight pounds of a specific powder gave a certain result it does not always mean the next lot # of the same powder will afford the same results.

Ron

 

[Rule3]

OK, as we have drifted from brass to powders now, read Walkalongs post above. #26. For the 9mm (IMHO) as it is a high pressure round. The medium to slow powders are better (safer) to use for a new reloader than the real fast ones like Bullseye or TiteGroup (yes lots of people use them)

You will be better off with HP38/W231 or Unique. Unique does not meter as well however.

The more you can fill the case up with powder (withing load data!!) the better,

This chart shows the relative burn rates of powders (there are so many brands and names and everyone likes something else.

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2015-2016.pdf

Manuals my friend, manuals!

 

[spitballer]

Load data may suggest using standard primers with ball powder too, and I can't figure that out. IMO bottleneck rifle case selection shouldn't matter from a safety standpoint until you get into an undersized chamber neck (worth considering if you ever have to order a barrel for a bolt rifle).

 

[USMC22]

This is a pretty good read on the subject; Reloading Ammo: Smokeless Powder and Temperature Sensitivity.

Ron

Thanks Ron,

From the article I gather working up loads in the summer would be ideal and that as temps increase so does the corresponding pressure.

-Aaron

 

[USMC22]

A good way to look at this is the old question, which weighs more a pound of lead or a pound of feathers? They both weigh the same but we know a pound of feathers will occupy a greater volume than a pound of lead. The lead being more dense than the feathers. So it is about density. Smokeless powders all have a density and there are density charts published for smokeless powders. Here is an example of a smokeless powder density chart or commonly called a VMD (Volume Metered Density) chart. This is a good link for a VMD explanation and how we can apply the basic math.


Depending on a powders density some powders are easier to spot an overcharge than others and while this is nice it is not all that simple and should not be used to choose a powder, not in my opinion anyway. You should be choosing a powder based on best performance for your gun. You try and work up different loads using assorted primers, bullets, brass and powders. The quest for the perfect combination of components. Reloading good and accurate ammunition means paying attention to detail and being focused on the task at hand. When throwing or weighing powder charges the hand loader must have all of his attention on the task at hand. Complacency can get a gun blown up or much worse. The "worse" is the very ugly part. Just means remaining focused, like hearing sight picture, sight alignment over and over again.

Oh yeah, least I forget. My understanding is that powder manufacturers allow themselves a VMD of something like +/- 16% lot to lot so just because one or eight pounds of a specific powder gave a certain result it does not always mean the next lot # of the same powder will afford the same results.

Ron

Thanks for taking the time to write that up Ron, the resources are helping connect some dots for me. Boy do I remember hearing and later teaching the "sight alignment, sight picture" but in 2012ish a transition was made to the Trijicon ACOG (4x fixed optic) and gone are the days of open sights, 8/3 big gap and small gap etc. Sad to see, but I'm sure each generation has seen it. I saw a lot of drastic changes in my 9 1/2 years. I suppose war time does that and then the shift back to garrison.

-Aaron

 

[Reloadron]

Thanks Ron,

From the article I gather working up loads in the summer would be ideal and that as temps increase so does the corresponding pressure.

-Aaron

Hey Aaron, yeah, that sums it up well. I won't say the whole temperature sensitivity thing is overblown or overrated because it isn't. That said most modern smokeless powders will perform well under a wide range of temperatures. Loading and initial load testing in warmer temperatures is a good way to go. You at least know the same loads under cooler temperatures will yield the same if not lower pressures.

Semper Fi
Ron

 

[Fire_Moose]

This is a pretty good read on the subject; Reloading Ammo: Smokeless Powder and Temperature Sensitivity.

Ron

Yup, just as I had suspected...

 

[mdi]

I tell newer reloaders to develop good, safe reloading practices now, right from the beginning. I had a double charge in 1970 and learned a few safe powder charging methods (I look in every case that I have dumped powder into. I use a "two pile method"; either with 2 loading blocks or cases separate and only go in the block after they're charged, etc.). Using a method that eliminates, or makes double charging very difficult allows me to choose a powder for its performance, not it's "anti-faux pas factor"...

 

[dirtman]

i still use the old bright flashlite and look into all cases in the tray trick.... if their is a double charge, your gonna see it...

 

[Fire_Moose]

i still use the old bright flashlite and look into all cases in the tray trick.... if their is a double charge, your gonna see it...

Agreed. Got one light "mounted" to a turret. And another on the bench.

 

[Walkalong]

Me too, I drilled a two step hole in my press to hold a small Fenix light. It shines down into the case where I look at powder charges and seat the bullet.

 

[Doublehelix]

Wow! You guys are pretty serious! I never thought to drill a hole in my press, but I can see how well it works. I bought a small magnetic gooseneck LED lamp from Amazon for $10 that works pretty well once you get it situated.



https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051RKFDE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Fire_Moose]

That's very clever indeed! I went the easy route and just used tape to press fit mine.

 

[Average Joe]

As long as its made out of brass, and is boxer primed, it don't make any difference.