CCW and local police forms - Pennsylvania

[Quiquin]

Today I picked up the paperwork to renew my CCW permit. Apparently because I moved from Bucks county to Montgomery county, I have to apply for a new one instead of getting a renewal. Well, in addition to the standard form, Montgomery county has another form that has to be filled by your local police department. I go to the local police department and they have yet another form to fill out.

And this is where something didn't seem right. In the form, among other things, they want you to list the types of weapons and serial numbers! Can they do this? I wonder what is the purpose of this. I thought that the CCW permit in PA was not for a specific gun. This doesn't seem right to me.

 

[TrybalRage]

That's not right at all! There really seems to be some problems with added forms to the CCW process in pA... like the required references from your county. What if you're new?

THAT FORM FOR SERIAL NUMBERS IS REGISTRATION AND THAT IS ILLEGAL IN PA!

 

[geekWithA.45]

BUUUZZZZT.

That's Wrong.

Contact the NRA's legal dept, see what they say.

I don't have the statutes in front of me, but I'm 98% sure that PA prohibits both the registration of handguns (* state police list exempted, apparently) and additional requirements for CCW.

The real question is how to best to refuse to fill out the extra paperwork & make it stick.

 

[1BLINDREF]

My CCW permit expires at the end of this year. I've never had to list any of my weapons on the previous renewals (2). I live in Montgomery Co. as well. When I got my first CCW almost 15 years ago, I only had to get the local PD to sign the form.
Looks like Big brother (Rendell) is watching us

 

[Quiquin]

They also wanted to know your family physician. I'm not sure what I should do. I asked about the serial numbers and they said it was to check if the guns were stolen.

Geek:
I'll see if I can find some info NRA legal.

 

[TrybalRage]

pfft. Tell them that was checked when you bought the damn things.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I've dispatched emails to my contacts, we'll see if we can figure out who the legal liason is for that region.

 

[TrybalRage]

Since when is the local PD responsible for running the info of people suspected of nothing?

Do they go around checking random SS numbers?

 

[MikeB]

I just renewed/reapplied in Bucks County. I was expired by a few months. No extra forms or questions. I didn't have the address info for one of my references. They offered me a phone book to look it up. 20mins later I was out the door with my new permit. I think this is a Montco thing.

 

[Quiquin]

Tell them that was checked when you bought the damn things.

I'd like to, but in the form it says that failure to provide all the required information may result in the denial of the "request". Whatever that means.

 

[Steve in PA]

There is no form for the local PD to fill out as they are not involved in the gun permit issuance.

Sounds like the sheriff dept either doesn't want to or doesn't know how to do a background check.

§6109. Licenses.

(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.-The sheriff to whom the application is made shall investigate the applicant's record of criminal convictions, shall investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by impris*onment exceeding one year, shall investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and shall investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) and shall conduct a criminal background, juvenile delin*quency or mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to firearm ownership).

And there is no requirement fo you to list what guns you have or their serial numbers.

 

[Rumble]

Some counties like to try to impose additional requirements on the process--in Indiana, they state that there is a 45-day waiting period, and you need three local references who have a) lived in Indiana for at least 3 years, and b) known you for at least 3 years.

I flat out told them I was new, that I couldn't provide the references. They said, "fill out the forms, and we'll see." I got my permit in the mail in about 5 days.

I would not fill out any additional forms except the application.

 

[Quiquin]

§6109. Licenses.

(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.-The sheriff to whom the application is made shall investigate the applicant's record of criminal convictions, shall investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by impris*onment exceeding one year, shall investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and shall investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) and shall conduct a criminal background, juvenile delin*quency or mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to firearm ownership).

And there is no requirement fo you to list what guns you have or their serial numbers.

Part (c) of §6109 says that issuing authorities shall only use the form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The way I interpret the wording, however, does not preclude them from using additional forms as long as the standard application form is used.

The local PD form doesn't have specific instructions on how to fill it out. It just has 3 spaces for listing firearms and serial #'s. It is not actually asking if I have any guns or telling me to list everything I have. Maybe I can leave it blank? The way I see it, having a firearm is technically not a prerequisite to obtaining the CCW license.

 

[QuickRick]

CCW laws and requirement...

I would suggest you check out the reciprocity laws of nearby states and see what their requirements are. The THR library shows Pennsylvania accepting CCWs from Virginia and New Hampshire. You might find their requirements less obtrusive (firearms, serial #s, etc) than your home state. Although I'm an Idaho resident I obtained my CCW in Washington state. Why? An Idaho CCW is not accepted by Washington but a Washington permit is honored by Idaho. Since I spend a lot of time in Washington (I live near the border of the two states) it was a no brainer. The cost involved in the permits was nearly the same as well. Neither Idaho or Washington ask for the firearms or serial numbers by the way. Good luck....

 

[Steve in PA]

c) Form of application and content.-The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. One of the following reasons for obtaining a fire*arm license shall be set forth in the application: self-defense, employment, hunting and fish*ing, target shooting, gun collecting or another proper reason. The application form shall be dated and signed by the applicant and shall contain the following statement:



I have never been convicted of a crime of violence in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or elsewhere. I am of sound mind and have never been committed to a mental institution. I hereby certify that the statements contained herein are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that, if I knowingly make any false statements herein, I am subject to penalties prescribed by law. I authorize the sheriff, or his designee, or, in the case of first class cities, the chief or head of the police department, or his designee, to inspect only those records or documents relevant to information required for this application.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

And this is where something didn't seem right. In the form, among other things, they want you to list the types of weapons and serial numbers! Can they do this? I wonder what is the purpose of this. I thought that the CCW permit in PA was not for a specific gun. This doesn't seem right to me.

Just to be clear, is it the PD that is asking for information about your firearms, or is it the Montgomery County Sherriff's office?

If it is the PD, which municipality?

 

[Quiquin]

Just to be clear, is it the PD that is asking for information about your firearms, or is it the Montgomery County Sherriff's office?

If it is the PD, which municipality?

It's the local West Norriton Twp. PD who is asking for makes and serial #'s. The Montgomery co. Sheriff's office requires the local PD to sign off on the "police check card", which I've never heard of.