CCW at Library in KY

[Five of Clubs]

I went to a different library in my county (in Kentucky) than the one I regularly visit and the sign shown below was posted outside. Ironically, I didn't have my Ruger LCP with me because it is at the factory for a recall (no lectures please, I'm already in the market for a back-up carry pistol). Anyway, my first assumption was that it wasn't illegal to carry there so in the future I would ignore the sign. However, the more I thought about it I wondered if Kentucky libraries fall under the umbrella of "government buildings" that generally (and lawfully) ban firearm possesion. The KY CCW codes specifically state restrictions in the obvious areas like police stations, jails, court houses, schools, bars, airports, etc. They also restrict CCW in "county, municipal, or special district governing body meetings", but nothing that sounds like a library. And for that matter, there is a similar sign outside of the local park that my daughter likes to go to. My guess is that I would not be breaking any law in these areas if I were to CCW there, but I want to stay legal even if all my books in the future come from Amazon. Any insights would be appreciated.

 

[QuietEarp]

I can't read English, So that means no Beretta 92s? OK, kind of strange but. . . Actually I am interested in the answer to your question. I would ask the county or town for the law on the subject. If there is none whomever spent the tax money on the signs should be fired.

 

[winston smith]

You didn't identify which library that is. Or its type. City, county or independent? Find out.

I suggest you call the local police department and ask them if its legal.

Then call the library administration and ask them what the origins and authorization for the sign are. Go to the library and ask to see a copy of their policy manual. That will get them.

Then, check with the state NRA or sportsmen's associations, if any.

You will have to piece the information together. My guess is that anti-gun library board members or city council decided that the librarians should be thrown to the wolves so the criminals didn't have to come into the better neighborhoods where the ruling elete live.

Call up the library director and ask if prohibiting you from maintaining safe custody of your gun or by denying you free access to library services was their intent and what will they do to remidy this situation.

Follow up with a letter, copied to the local newspapers.

I can't tell you how offensive this is to me!

 

[NavyLCDR]

I suggest you call the local police department and ask them if its legal

9 times out of 10 if you call a police department and ask them if you can carry a gun at such and such place, they are going to tell you no. LE agencies are not experts on law and typically have no more than the bare minimum knowledge to do their jobs. It's just easier for them to say no you can't carry a gun to lessen the chance of them receiving a MWAG call.

 

[winston smith]

NavyLT: we are at the information gathering stage; he needs to ask for the police administration and take names; if its a competent PD, the police will refer him to the corporation council. Its also stiring up the pot.

"9 times out of 10 if you call a police department and ask them if you can carry a gun at such and such place, they are going to tell you no. LE agencies are not experts on law and typically have no more than the bare minimum knowledge to do their jobs. It's just easier for them to say no you can't carry a gun to lessen the chance of them receiving a MWAG call."

 

[Five of Clubs]

Thanks for the responses and action plan. The library is definitely controlled by the county. I'd rather not say which county as I am baseline paranoid, but it is in a rural area that I would not consider anti-gun in any way. In fact, Kentucky in general is Brady's worst nightmare (lots of guns and little crime). We are definitely a red county in a red state. Not sure what went wrong here. It would be different if it were a private entity as they can post whatever they want and I can just go ahead and do whatever is legal. A friend of a friend was just elected to city council, I may start with him. I'd rather not approach the police directly even though they would likely be helpful. Like I said, I'm baseline paranoid. I wouldn't mind asking a manager-type at the library though. Thanks again.

 

[winston smith]

You can also check to see if they have current and sufficent numbers of books on firearms and magazines of male interest, like, ahhh... "Guns and Ammo". If not, they are institutionally discriminating against people based on sex. The vast majority of CCW permit holders are men, right?

And look in the politics section for balance between Al Franken and Bill O'Reiley; check the card catalog in case some are being read and not on the shelf. You might be able to search their catalog on the Internet; make sure you see if the books are at this branch or another. Maybe this is the branch for the local liberals only.

Good luck!

 

[Theojt]

If it is a Public Library, it appears that you are within your rights to carry. If it happened to be privately owned, that would be a different matter. See subsection 17 in the document below:

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

 

[ArmedBear]

Why do you need to carry it in KY?

Where are you hiding it?

 

[greenr18]

because we all know how many library shootings occur each year... I can see gangbangers now shooting it out in a library "Yo homes, that's my copy of Grey's Anatomy!" "The hell it is mo**** fu****" BLAM BLAM

But seriously... Banning CCWs in a library? There's absolutely no point to that, it's just antis being stupid

 

[Five of Clubs]

I think Armed Bear meant why am I carrying my pistol in KY (jelly). It took me a minute to catch it as well, apparently we aren't as cerebral (or perverted) as Mr. Bear. My answer to his question would be that my CCW instructor stressed concealment, and the KY assists greatly. BTW Bear, I've read many of your posts and I usually enjoy them greatly.

On to an adult converstion, thanks for the info TheoJT. I read an abbreviated version of the restrictions from my CCW travel guide book but it did not contain #17. Regarding privately owned businesses that don't want you to carry there, I found the following passage interesting, "Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises". Basically my interpretation is that they can refuse service if they know I'm carrying, but I wouldn't be doing anything illegal. This likely doesn't apply since I'm fairly certain the county owns the library, but it's nice to know. Based on what I read in that link, I think I'm probably OK to carry. The real question is, what am I willing to do to try and get the sign down? Thanks all.

 

[winston smith]

On another gun forum I see that some genius legislator in Virginia has introduced a bill to make it illegal to cary one's licenced handgun into a...LIBRARY.

 

[INSULATION TIM]

I was always under the impression that any owner, government or private, can supercede the law. In other words, it's their perogative to declare their facility "No Firearms".

Ohio has Concealed Carry, yet when I applied at the Sheriff's Department and when I came back to pick up my permit, No Firearms are Allowed unless you are LEO.

Most librarians, I assume, tend to be liberals and peace loving and find guns to be abhorent. It's a knee jerk reaction. I'm sure that the slimy gangsta's of Cincinnati's Inner City (really, the whole city) totally abide by these rules and regs.

As a side note, there is a Wine Shop in my area that I frequent (Probably too frequently) and I spoke to Gena about her "No Firearms Sign". After we had a long discussion, and she understood the whole concept of law abiding citizens carrying for their and others protection....the SIGN CAME DOWN!

I think that the answer is in educating the public.

 

[Sam1911]

I was always under the impression that any owner, government or private, can supercede the law. In other words, it's their perogative to declare their facility "No Firearms".

Nope. It all depends on where you are, of course, but there are a great many places where that sign has no legal bearing whatsoever. Here in PA no signage or stated policy that is not specifically in the law carries any weight at all. Now, if someone in a position of authority notices your gun and asks you to leave, you must do so or you'd face a tresspassing charge. If a venue puts up metal detectors and screens everyone entering -- they can refuse you entrance and that's their right. But you can't be arrested just for carrying your gun in "violation" of a company or personal policy.

In some states signs like that do have legal weight. In some states they may be legally binding if and only if they meet the exact requirements for legal "no guns" signage. And in a lot of places they have no relevance at all.

-Sam

 

[Armed N. Free]

Well.....since the sign says "no CONCEALED deadly weapons, I guess I'd just remove the mag from my PX4 which would render it "non-deadly", retrieve my CX4 from the trunk, insert the mag, throw it over my shoulder and walk on in

I was made at our library the other day by an adolescent twerp who decided to randomly punch people in their stomachs! I was wearing my PX4 with spare high-cap mag in my belly band. I think he hurt his knuckles

 

[Starcheck55]

i like the OC idea. if you REALLY wanted to get people worked up, you could show up for children's book reading while OC*

*i do not actually recommend doing so.

 

[Armed N. Free]

It would be hard to read while holding my tongue in my cheek

Actually though, in all seriousness, there is a way to "infiltrate" the libraries.

Nearly all libraries depend heavily on donations of books for their collections from the public. My wife handles this department at our local library where it is called "memorials". People can call her and donate money in memory of someone, either living or recently departed, to be used to purchase books in which a book plate is placed inside the front cover :in honor or memory of ".......", given by"........" I get to help choose a lot of the memorial purchases. As such, I must say the collection has had some excellent growth in the Political (both left and right), Gardening, Home Improvement, Music, Art and of course History, Constitutional Law and definitely 2A related (tech books, history books, good shoot 'em up movies) etc.

Also, I place as much Constitutional Law, NRA, NCLJ and Pro-Life material in the public areas as I can get my hands on.

I also volunteer to read for children's story time (really, I do) and I pick books when possible which have some historical reference (usually American History, Wild West Civil War, WWII, Vietnam which happen to contain - you guessed it -referenced to effective and necessary use of fire arms).

I really want to hold a John Wayne film fest for the little buggers in the near future and maybe do some NRA kids stuff about firearm safety.

 

[Five of Clubs]

Thanks for all the responses guys, even the light-hearted ones. I like the open carry idea as it's perfectly legal in this state and not addressed on the sign, but as you might imagine I'll never do it. I was just a little surprised to see the sign. Although not everyone I know out here owns a firearm, I don't know of ANY that are afraid of them or think they are inherently evil. I guess I keep underestimating the ability of anti-gunners to completely ignore the facts.

 

[Armed N. Free]

Five of Clubs,

Thanks for the heads-up! I CCW into the library nearly every night and just figure "the courthouse has signs and the library doesn't. Carry on dude".

I try to keep my PX4 out of sight so no one knows (except that kid who punched me) and no issue is made. I wouldn't want the SHTF if the director (liberal inferno) found out. Although there are no signs, she'd probably get vindictive. I just don't like being bullied and denied my rights by mental midgets.

You'd think being around all of those books would automatically make librarians wiser and smarter than anyone else. I guess it works the same way as me being around all my guns automatically makes me a greater threat to the public than non-gun owners.:banghead:

I wonder if someone will build a "Charlton Heston" memorial library? Ya' think it will be posted? Probably - "Open Carry Deadly Weapons Are Required in This Library"

 

[SHvar]

From the link.

"If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is prohibited."

"Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer."

 

[#shooter]

Well.....since the sign says "no CONCEALED deadly weapons, I guess I'd just remove the mag from my PX4 which would render it "non-deadly", retrieve my CX4 from the trunk, insert the mag, throw it over my shoulder and walk on in

Good point. It doesn't say anything about open carry.