CCW, have you ever drawn in real life scenario?

[nathan]

Many of us here have CCW in your respective state of resident.

Can you tell us your stories of real life scenarios where you have drawn your gun to protect life and limb, and if so, what happened to the bad guy?

 

[atlctyslkr]

Those types of questions are generally frowned upon here

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=205304

I don't think you'll get too many responses.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Totally aside from the skating close to forum rules or unwritten rules I will say that most who have had to face a lethal force situation have no desire to discuss it on a public board. And no don't ask me how I know .

 

[Zundfolge]

go here

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

 

[P95Carry]

I have reworded the last part of the thread-starter's post. But yes this is a question that occurs periodically and there are not many who on a public forum really wish to share their experiences.

It is shakey ground in some ways. We carry to deal with a threat - and the manner in which that might occur and the sequele are variables.

I will leave this open for a while in case someone chooses to add a genuine experience but otherwise it will be closed later.

 

[nathan]

Kindly delete this topic if its so intrusive, thanks

 

[atlctyslkr]

I have a story but I don't want to tell it. Hearing about "made up" senarios is fun and helps to increase your situational awareness. The real thing isn't fun. I wish I could erase the memory. It still scares me to think of how it could have not gone my way. I'm sure the three other people with me probably feel the same. I wish we lived in a society where CCW was not necessary.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Nathon my intent was not to flame you. and its only intrusive if we allow it to be as individuals. Some who have " been there " may choose to answer , most wont and this type thread can turn " bad " easily . So don't be surprised at folk's reactions when this stuff is routinely passed around by trolls .

 

[P95Carry]

Nathan - it is maybe intrusive to some but also a subject that can go different ways under discussion - ''hot potato'' if you will.

No harm in actually asking tho it is not welcome to bring in the word ''kill'' - we are only out to deal with threats and not out specifically to kill anyone.

I will still leave it open a while but knowing how the subject can go from past experience - may not be for long.

 

[AK103K]

I have, twice. Both times the rabid raccoon never cleared leather. But they were "menacing" and the other boys with me R U N N O F T, leaving me to deal with it alone. I must be tough too, cause I didnt get PTS or have any counseling or nothin'

 

[vanilla_gorilla]

With respect to the original poster of this story, I throw this out. It was already posted once on a very public forum (GlockTalk) and the poster had a little "Q&A" session about his feelings and reactions. It has since been posted at several other sites, as well. I do not know the original poster, but it was posted on a public forum, so I copied it to myself, and will paste the original post here. If any mods feel this is something they are not comfortable with or do not like, I will readily remove it.

A guy and his lady friend are walking down a street after eating a nice steak dinner on Friday night. The area is busy and the only parking available was a nice walk away, not a problem on a beautiful October night.

So the guy, who has had a lot of firearms courses notices a van slowly driving the other direction on the street. The guy notices the deep gurgling sound of the exhaust, but really doesn't think much of it. Then he notices a couple of thugs crossing the street; said GTer is uncomfortable because he and his lady friend seemed to get too much attention from the guys crossing the street. One of those "it just doesn't feel right" type of things.

So the couple continue walking toward the parking garage, when the GTer notices the gurgling sound of that van slowly passing by them. Then the GTer, who regularly uses windows to watch his 6, notices the two thugs that crossed the street coming up behind them. One of the thugs is clearly holding his right hand suspiciously around his belt buckle area. Then said GTer notices the van stopped on the side of the street just ahead and the 2 thugs behind them are getting closer.

GTer tells his lady friend that they are going to duck into any open business they see, but there were not any available. Just as they were coming up on the van, 2 ****-eaters jump out of the van and block the sidewalk. Gter draws his Kimber .45, and moves to engage the thugs 5 feet behind them; the intention was to go to low ready and size up the situation. The two from the van did not appear to be armed and one behind them was already spotted as armed.

So GTer turns and starts to shout at the two thugs on foot when the armed one begins to pull a revolver (SW .38 special). GTer, had the jump because the thugs in the rear did not see him remove his pistol from his daytimer style carry (they had been where alcohol was sold, but he did not drink).

The GTer always, always, always shoots failure drill at the range and trains at least twice a month.

As the BG #1 pulls the pistol, the GTer puts two rounds COM and moves up and puts one in the eye area. There was absolutely no reaction to the chest shots in the BG. The second thug turns to his falling comrade and tries to get his pistol, as GTer puts 2 slugs in his COM and one in the side of the head, GTer didn't know he hit BG #2 with the first 2 rounds. The second thug didn't have time to get turned around to face GTer, and didn't go down from the two to the chest, so said GTer puts one is the side of his head. Both third shots, at 5 feet, were very messy. Luckily for GTer, the second thug did get his hands on the pistol (a fact that would greatly help him in the future). So after the two in the rear were neutralized, GTer turned to check on the two from the van who had started moving his way. When GTer turned to engage them, gun at low ready, they turned and ran to the van got in and the van sped off.

The thugs were linked to other rapes and 2 abductions of similar method, and had sheets as long as your arm. (funny how that wasn't admissable in court) The thugs from the van looked more pissed than scared, and GTer would encounter them later in life. Turns out they were members of the Gangsta Disciples. The Gangsta's don't take lightly to seeing their bro.s being shot down in the street.

The aftermath: Said GTer was charged with manslaughter (the jury was given other options too) and was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Deliberations took less than 3 hours. Some of the city council PERSONS believed that failure drill represented too much force and GTer should have not made the last shot on the guys. Of course, if he had not made the third shots in the failure drill, the thugs would be alive today. So city council PERSON, pressures the DA and viola, the decision is made to charge him.

The cost to GTer to stay out of prison was $18,000+. That works out to be $3k per shot, or $9k per bad guy.

The situation doesn't often end as well in his dreams, as it did in real time, but he never can quite get it behind him. He carries a strange sense of guilt.

The girlfriend that GTer was trying to protect, broke up with him 3 weeks later. She just never could get over it and could not understand the violent nature of his counterattack. She dumped him, which broke his heart, but she was a very good witness for his defense, and for that he is eternally grateful.

The follow up encounters (turns out during a trial, it isn't hard to get the home address of the defendant) with the Gangsta Disciples were a little better; and no charges were placed in those instances.

Sorry if GTer wasn't armed with and AK, but then they would never have picked us to attack.

The morals of the story: Live with what happened, or with what may have happened- his girlfriend being abducted..... It is better to be tried by 12.... When the SHTF, you fall back on your training in automatic mode. So train well and often.

 

[Jim March]

Most CCW uses end up as "chase offs", no shots fired, sometimes the gun never even has time to clear leather before the aggressor flees. When they happen properly, you had good reason to draw but the threat vanished the instant you did - not a problem on your part.

These aren't so traumatic. I've had three, two on humans, one definate on dogs, one kinda questionable on dogs but with animals, the standard before drawing deadly force isn't as great.

(Put another way: if a dozen humans came towards me suddenly, I wouldn't draw. When a dozen dogs did so I did. Turned out to me unnecessary.)

The weapons in the hands of the human assailants was a large wrench and solo attacker, the other case had four attackers and two claw hammers between 'em. The rules on drawing a knife or gun are and should be the same, and I feel completely justified in each case. Police were called to the scene with the four lunatics and police reviewing my actions cleared me and returned my knife (5.5" blade folder).

 

[Jim March]

A proper, legal chase-off happens when a goblin radically alters their behavior the instant they even think you've got a weapon.

Chase-offs can be legally defended in every single state, unless you're suggesting shooting a muggercritter *after* he's dropped his piece and turned tail just to make sure appearances are met?

I certainly hope that's not what you're suggesting.

 

[sm]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=169183

 

[30 cal slob]

I find real-life encounters of value to discuss if there's something to be learned, be it technicals or legal issues.

As far as willingness to talk about such events, one would probably me more inclined to be comfortable talking about a "chase-off" in which nobody gets hurt rather than dredging up painful memories of wounding or killing a person (regardless of whether lethal force was justified).

The one thing that is holding me back about talking (in detail) about my own armed encounter(s) has been legal liability. I would hate to write something in an open forum that is the interblab that could eventually be used against me in a court of law by an anti-gun prosecutor or anti-gun police or by a tort-hungry lawyer, even though I have acted lawfully in all respects (and the statutes of limitations for certain charges has passed in the relevent jurisdictions).

So there.

 

[the naked prophet]

I posted a home-defense incident a few months ago, you can do a search if you're really interested. I believe it was a thread about home-defense incidents. Nothing much happened, I grabbed gun, cell phone, and wife, and hid in the closet while talking to the 911 operator until the police got there.

This next incident did happen about a month ago, and I posted it on another forum where I am more active. This did not happen last friday, but that's what it says because I wrote it that saturday. This is mostly cut-and-pasted.

So yesterday (Friday) I visited my hometown to see an old high school buddy of mine, Joel. He was the best man at my wedding and everything. We go to see a movie last night at the small town movie theater. We end up staying a little late in the snack bar area talking about old times, guns, religion, and whatnot.

Then we head out to the parking lot, which is gravel and backs up against some woods on the edge of town. His truck and my little nissan are the only vehicles nearby. There may have been some employee cars on the other side of the building, but I didn't notice any.

Odd thing. The parking lot lights were off. Don't know if they were turned off because the place was closed or because the power was out or a blown transformer or what. It was dark. Very dark. So Joel and I both have our flashlights out while walking to the cars. We hear something about 20 feet past my car (my car is two spaces past his truck, mine on the left his on the right as you're looking toward the parking lot from the sidewalk). His beam finds it first. It's some sort of decent sized animal, maybe a badger or large raccoon, but hard to tell in the dark. I light it up with my brighter beam, and it's a black bear cub! I thought, that's weird, didn't know there were bears around here. But more and more subdivisions have been built in the last year or so, so it's probably driving them out of their habitat. Yes, I actually thought all of that in the two to three seconds I was looking at it.

I can hardly type because my hands are shaking so bad. And I haven't even gotten to the scary part.

So there's this bear cub right here, maybe 80-100 lbs, the size of a large dog. His fur is jet black, and his eyes are glowing bright yellow in the flashlight beams. I think, that's a pretty small cub... maybe we should leave before mama bear comes by. Maybe I should look around real quick before getting in the car. Good idea, in hindsight.

I start sweeping the area with my flashlight about 120 degrees to my left, over my left shoulder. We were parked along the right side of the theater, and the parking lot continues around the back of the theater, so I was scanning basically from the back edge of the theater on around. There's nothing out to the edge of the trees, but I see an awful lot of glowing yellow eyes watching from the woods. An awful lot. I'm starting to get creeped out.

Oh yes, I just remembered this. When he first saw the animal, before we had identified it, he joked with me saying "think can you hit it from here?" because he knows I carry. I was carrying my Browning Hi-Power .40 caliber with two spare magazines on my weak side.

Okay, so I'm scanning the parking lot. I'm getting creeped out because of all the eyes in the woods. I get about 20 degrees to the left of the bear cub when it hit me. I knew it was about to hit me just before it hit - didn't know how I knew at the time, but in hindsight I realize that I probably heard it coming as it crunched across the gravel. It hit me in the back just as I started to spin away. It almost knocked me over, and ripped my overshirt off. My right hand was back by my gun, so when it hit my shirt, the two closed buttons popped off, and the sleeve came off my right arm fairly easily - I say fairly because it did twist my arm to the degree of pain, and it still hurts a little now. When the sleeve came off my left arm, it took the flashlight with it. As I'm trying to figure out what happened, I see it in Joel's flashlight beam, still running. The bear cub had charged me and attacked. Those suckers move FAST. From a standstill it covered about 20 feet and hit me before I could do anything but twist myself around a little.

I squat to pick up my flashlight and begin scanning before I even stand up - this is all going in slow motion now. I'm scanning very, very quickly as I'm trying to get to my car. My flashlight beam gets to where the cub had been and before the center of the beam hits anything, the edges of the beam must have caught her eyes, and as the center of the beam illuminated her, I thought "oh **** it's mama bear" and at that exact moment, the edges of the beam caught two more eyes about a foot higher and a little to the right. OH **** IT'S PAPA BEAR. Mama bear was about 3 1/2 to 4 feet tall to the shoulder, but papa bear was around 5 feet tall to the shoulder. These are the biggest frickin animals I've ever seen - and I've touched elephants. I actually remember thinking that the male bear doesn't usually hang around after mating season, but I have no idea when mating season is. [note: this happened right around the spring thaw]

I don't know how I knew, maybe it was because I like to watch nature videos and all that, maybe because I picked up on her vibe, or maybe because it was obvious, but I knew she was charging at me. I don't remember drawing, but I remember remembering drawing. I also remember thinking "forty caliber against a bear? That's just gonna piss her off" but I had nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. I was standing about 8 feet off the passenger side fender of my car. I knew I didn't have time to get to the drivers side of the car.

I fired one time. I didn't hear anything, I didn't see any muzzle flash, I didn't see the slide come back, and I didn't feel any recoil. I just remember the three white posts lining up between her bright yellow eyes and then just doing it. She kind of crumpled up and did a summersault and stopped. Reminded me of when a big crab tucks in all its legs and pincers and suddenly it's a lot smaller.

It was precisely at that moment that I recalled seeing papa bear run off to the right and I knew he wasn't running away. When I started looking for him I realized that when firing, I had backed away diagonally just like I had trained at the range. I had backed up behind my car for cover (as if the bear was going to shoot at me or something). I swept my flashlight around to the right to see papa bear rounding the back corner of Joel's truck. I took three steps to the right (I obsessively count my steps - I can tell you how many steps from the parking lot on campus to my office to my lab to my advisors office...) and lined up the three white posts on the galloping bear. It was kind of running out and around, like it was trying to get behind me. It turned and came back towards me right as I started squeezing the trigger. It's about 30 feet away as the first shot breaks. I pulled the trigger three times that I remember, and papa bear stops about 10 feet from the side of the truck and sort of lays down like it was gonna take a nap.

I suddenly wonder if mama bear has gotten back up - I glance back and she's still down. I turn around again to look at papa bear, and he is getting back up and starting to come back around the truck, but his hind legs aren't working right and he's moving a whole lot slower - otherwise I'd be dead, and you're about to find out why.

I back up yet again and squeeze the trigger, but it's mush. I recognize the feel of the trigger as meaning the slide is not in battery. I tilt the Browning just enough to see that the slide is about half an inch back, and I can see a round nose-dived into the feed ramp (this has never happened before – it has always fed ammo 100% reliably, which is why I carry it). I have backed up to the front edge of my car now, and I jump up on the hood and then onto the roof. On my way up, I notice that I had completely forgotten about Joel - I notice this because he's sitting in the drivers seat of my car. Why in the world is he in my car and not his truck? And how did he get in? I didn't even think about the second question until after it was all over.

Once on the roof of my car (my poor car, I could feel the thin sheet metal of the roof collapsing under my feet) I did a tap rack bang, but when I pulled the slide back it wouldn't go forward - I was empty. I guess I must have fired more than I thought I had. As I dropped the magazine, papa bear had come up to the side of the car and I felt Joel's weight shift over to the passengers side as the bear tried to swipe at me. I shoved in a new magazine.







And that's when I woke up. I was instantly aware that I was in my bed, that I had been dreaming, and that the bears represented criminals, and all the eyes in the woods represented a bunch of onlookers in a city type setting. My adrenaline was pumping, and I was in condition red before my eyes were open - which was pretty darn fast. I was positive that a criminal was about to charge out of the living room. I put my hand on the S&W model 10 that's on my night stand, and then I noticed the red and blue lights flashing in my living room. The police had stopped someone right in front of my house and I could see the lights through my blinds. After the police left, I couldn't fall back asleep. I had a headache, my right arm hurt from where the bear cub had ripped off my shirt, I was shaking all over, and just too excited to go to sleep. Then I looked at the clock. It was 5:29 AM and I just lay there thinking. It's nearly noon and I'm still shaking from the adrenaline.

That was the single scariest, most realistic dream I have ever had.

 

[KINGMAX]

Real Warriors don't talk about these types of memories

Real Warriors do not talk about these types of memories. These are terrible
acts of 'war' that need to be left where they took place. Please be respectful, don't ask a Warrior to share these encounters.

Thanks -

 

[P95Carry]

Thanks guys - well having left it open a while longer I think we can now close.

As most realize, the majority of folks with genuine experiences are not too keen, understandably, to discuss such in any great detail.