CCW tactical tradeoffs

[dwestfall]

Here are a few hypotheticals that keep me awake at night.

1) You have a large handgun you are very good with and a small handgun with a different trigger type that you are competent with. Wardrobe limitations allow you to carry the large handgun 60% of the time, and the small handgun the rest of the time.

Question: For training, familiarity, proficiency reasons are you better off carrying the small handgun all the time, even when you could carry the big handgun?

2) You have a large double-stack handgun you are very good with and a smaller single-stack handgun you are competent with. Wardrobe limitations allow you to carry the large handgun 60% of the time with the spare magazine on the belt, or 100% of the time with the spare mag in a pocket (lint, accessibility issues). The single-stack handgun could be carried all the time with the spare mag on the belt.

Question: Which is a better defensive solution?

3) You have a compact double-stack handgun you are very good with and a MK23 SOCOM you are even better with. You cannot effectively conceal the MK23 (darn), so you carry the compact handgun.

Question: Would you be better off using the compact gun for both CCW and nightstand duty for consistency, or carrying the compact but using the MK23 for nighstand duty?

4) You have a full-size double-stack 9mm handgun you are very good with and a full-size double-stack .45 you even better with. You think the rounds are equally effective, and both pistols are 100% reliable.

Question: If TSHTF (sorry) and you are bugging out, you can't carry as much .45ACP ammo as 9mm ammo due to the bulk and weight. Are you better served by by taking the .45 you are best with and less ammo, or the 9mm you shoot well and 50% more ammo?

If there are any unreasonable false dilemmas or logic holes here, please point them out. However I am focused just on handguns at the moment, with an emphasis on the pros/cons of standardization.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[P95Carry]

dwestfall ... one of my std answers .... ''How long is a piece of cord??''

Really .. so very hard to do more than opine from one's own standpoint. It is winter now and one up side for me is the ease of carry ... last winter I used either my P95 or, later on P97 .. love them.

However .. here I am this winter still using an almost ''summer carry'' ..... why?

I have grown to like my SP-101 and .... fitted CT grips to it. That now is both comfortable re size and ... for the time being ... about as good as it gets to me for a defensive piece.

''Firepower'' .... ?? ..... sure lacking .. in theory. Five rounds and I'm out - until one of two speedloaders (Comp 1's) brought into play.

But working on premise of shot placement being crucial (I think we all agree) then I feel that here I have the ideal tool ..... low light is almost a given ... and this piece allows me ...

1] Quick draw - from a hi-ride pancake 4 o'clock

2] It does not require sighting by eye on the irons .... a ''point shoot'' proceedure is fine using the red dot in subdued light (for which read, almost anything below ''cloudy bright''.)

3] I am ''just as good'' with useage and deployment of this snubby as with my P series ... equally ''at home'' .... but then I'm old and revo's and auto's are all ''friends''!


So what am I saying (waffling!) .... assess circumstances .. ''how much gun can I carry?'' ... and if possible carry the max (which does not mean just physical size) ...... but as I have said ... not at all sure the max is only way to go. Instance my SP-101 comments.

Ultimately I think it is what works best .... ''for you''. The ''better solution'' is what you can make work and practice with ... as well as what your dress allows for carry.

Sorry ... way too verbose!

 

[artherd]

OK, I'll play.

1) I'd say pretty much smaller gun all the time. And start training FTS (two in the chest, one in the head.) Keep both constant so you can fall back on them withought having to hesitate.

2) Large double stack. You don't want to reload under pressure (to put it mildly!) if you can avoid it.

3) Are you *Sure* you can't conceal the MK23? Why not, exactly? Are you sure? Have you tried (insert alternative carry method of the week here.) Maybe it's not as easy, but I'd say that a MK23 should be concealable with some minimal effort.

4) No question, more rounds will keep you alive longer. I too consider good 9mm about equivlent to a .45. If the S really hit the F, I'd give long thought to carrying a .22LR and TEN THOUSAND rounds instead. As has been said, guns and hoardes of people are kind of like gum in class. I hope you brought enough for *everyone*.

 

[Mulliga]

1) Keep the small handgun all the time. If you can only carry the larger one concealed 60% of the time (I'm assuming this is your best effort at concealment), you'll have to keep switching off guns for different places (i.e., shopping, fancy dinners, going to the beach/park/forest/whatever, etc.). I personally don't like the idea of switching off - the one time you might need your gun you might have forgotten to take it with you.

2) If you have to fire more than 8 or so shots, logically you're definitely in deep s*** and you won't have time to reload anyway. Is there any way to carry the big gun and no mag? If not, you might as well use the small gun for the reasons above and only bring the big one with you when you know you'll be alone/at risk.

3) Plenty of folks have a house gun. Personally, I'd keep BOTH of them near the nightstand. Instances where a half-dozen BGs storm in are rare, but they DO happen.

4) Handguns are small. Are you sure you can't take BOTH along with you? 9mm and .45 are two of the most common rounds in autoloaders, so it would behoove any survivalist to take both along (and a .40 wouldn't hurt, either!). That said, 9mm hollowpoints are plenty effective, and lighter to boot. I'm guessing most would say to keep the 9.

 

[R127]

1,2, 3:

If you can/will commit to it, at least a year or so, take up classical fencing under an instructor who knows what he's doing. The result will be you'll be better able to pick up and use anything you may want to carry, and as a plus, you'll start wondering why people are worried about losing fine motor skills under stress. If you also workout with indian clubs, which I guess I touched on in the other thread about staying in shape, you'll get even more benefit out of it.

4:

For practical reasons I consider a strong 9mm full capacity handgun to be superior to a .45acp doublestack, when loaded with the highest quality ammunition. The reason for this is simple, nearly all the same power but a whole lot more rounds, hence chances to use it, lighter ammo, potentially smaller gun. In a short while I'm going to be performing some modifications to some pre-ban mags to have flush fitting 18 rounders. That is a remarkable firepower advantage. If anybody says "well, if I need more than (x) rounds, then I'm SOL anyway" they're welcome to feel that way. As for me, I will give myself every last chance for success I can, every last bullet I can cram down my mag and still get reliable functioning, plus one in the chamber, and reloads! I want the badguy to have to walk through a lead hailstorm!!! before he gets to me or mine.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Derek,

My answer is pretty much the same for all 4. It depends on the diff btw the big gun and the little gun and how 'adaptable' your hands are to the different guns. I can transition between USP, Beretta and P7 without dorking up the safeties, mag releases, slide releases, etc., as well as transition between the banjo, Hawaiian guitar, guitar and mandolin in one sitting. Some folks need time to warm up when they switch. I think my hands (thankfully) bypass my (feeble) brain and interface with whatever they're holding; I can switch between things and not step on the proverbial dog crap (ok it translates better in Chinese). The only thing that's ever thrown me off is the little nub on the 'D' and 'K' keys on Apple computers.

Now if you were talking fullsize and compact USPs and Glocks as far as your cross-caliber hypotheticals, I think you'd be safe transitioning say between a Glock 34 and a Glock 36, or a USP Tactical and a USP9C. But maybe if you shot a Glock 26 and a Kimber 1911 and it took you a few minutes at the range to transition between teh two, you'd be better off with the Glock 26 16/7/365.75?

The thing is with combat courses (IDPA, training, etc.) I don't notice the difference between my 'carry' guns and my 'competiton' guns because so much else is going on, but I really feel it when blasting steel. I haven't figured out why, because really all that matters is sightpicture, triggerpress and followthrough. But maybe I'm doing the wrong thing and I'm letting a scenario distract me from the fundamentals?

Sorry, got rambly there

 

[The Rabbi]

With all due respect to R127 capacity is greatly over-rated. Most personal defense sits involve one or two shot fired. After that one of the parties is either dead, incapacitated or running like heck in the opposite direction. That said, I would pick the biggest round in the most reliable handgun. For that reason I am carrying a Smith 329PD .44mag.
Yeah, sure, you can play "what if I find myself in E.St. Louis between the Bloods and the Crips" all day long. But I try to prepare for what is a realistic possibility based on the stats. I only carry one spare tire in the car as well.

 

[Gocart]

I advocate shooting/training/CCW-ing with the same gun, or at least the same trigger platform all the time. When the balloon goes up, you don't want to have to remember which gun you have and how you manipulate it differently.

You mention wardrobe considerations dictating your choices. Are these wardrobe considerations mandatory or just matters of preference? Only you can answer that one. If they fall into the category of preferred wardrobe, then bite the bullet and make the changes in wardrobe that will allow you to carry your #1 handgun. Carrying is a commitment to a lifestyle that may involve some concessions... (I hope that did not sound like preaching)

Another option is to get a smaller model of the same make as your primary - I carry a G23 (compact) on my hip or IWB as a first option, but when I can't, I carry it's younger brother, the G27 in an ankle hoster. Almost like shooting the same gun.

Good luck.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

1) I would devote extra practice time to the small one, but carry whatever I was most comfortable with, i.e. the big one, whenver possible.

2) I'd carry the double stack... a beretta with a preban and one in the pipe gives me more ammo than a 1911 and a reload.

3) See #1. Keep the SOCOM on the nightstand.

4) If I have to use my pistol, there's probably gonna be plenty of weapons and ammo lying around afterward... I'd take what I considered to be best for me.

 

[Boats]

1) You have a large handgun you are very good with and a small handgun with a different trigger type that you are competent with. Wardrobe limitations allow you to carry the large handgun 60% of the time, and the small handgun the rest of the time.

My solution to this is to not have a "smaller gun" with a different trigger type. I go from full size 1911 to Commander, to Officer's to a Beretta Jetfire, all sporting cocked and locked SA triggers depending on how "secure" I feel about concealment matters. I'm considering the same strategy in wheelguns--A Smith 625, a Gp-100, an Sp-101, and maybe some mini-revolver or a Scandium Smith.

Question: For training, familiarity, proficiency reasons are you better off carrying the small handgun all the time, even when you could carry the big handgun?

Since I have no difference in trigger systems, I carry what is the most comfortable given the circumstances.

2) You have a large double-stack handgun you are very good with and a smaller single-stack handgun you are competent with. Wardrobe limitations allow you to carry the large handgun 60% of the time with the spare magazine on the belt, or 100% of the time with the spare mag in a pocket (lint, accessibility issues). The single-stack handgun could be carried all the time with the spare mag on the belt.

Question: Which is a better defensive solution?

For me the single stack is always the better answer for shootability and usually caliber reasons. Gain cover or fight to cover and then one can reload if one must.

3) You have a compact double-stack handgun you are very good with and a MK23 SOCOM you are even better with. You cannot effectively conceal the MK23 (darn), so you carry the compact handgun.

Question: Would you be better off using the compact gun for both CCW and nightstand duty for consistency, or carrying the compact but using the MK23 for nighstand duty?

This is a toss-up for me as no handgun is my primary at home, a shotgun is. Since a SOCOM weighs almost as much as a shotgun, it wouldn't matter if that were the house gun.

4) You have a full-size double-stack 9mm handgun you are very good with and a full-size double-stack .45 you even better with. You think the rounds are equally effective, and both pistols are 100% reliable.

Question: If TSHTF (sorry) and you are bugging out, you can't carry as much .45ACP ammo as 9mm ammo due to the bulk and weight. Are you better served by by taking the .45 you are best with and less ammo, or the 9mm you shoot well and 50% more ammo?

I will take fewer rounds of .45 as that pistol will never be my primary weapon in a SHTF scenario, rather it is a "New York reload" for a long gun. Besides, I would never think 9mm is the equivalent of .45ACP. A .357 magnum perhaps, but not a 9mm.

If there are any unreasonable false dilemmas or logic holes here, please point them out. However I am focused just on handguns at the moment, with an emphasis on the pros/cons of standardization.

Not to be a jerk or anything, but you could have just asked what the pros and cons of platform standardization are.

Here are the pros as I see them on 1911s:
Same ammo
Same mags useable in all except for the Officer's cannot be used in the bigs, but the bigs can all be used in the Officer's
Commonality/interchangeability of many of the small parts in case of breakage, especially firing pins and other parts in the slide or rear of the frames.
Can detail strip them all with the same knowledge set.
Duplicated trigger actions and finger controls.
Same relative sighting characteristics and recoil reactions.

Cons:
Loading or buying a lot of .45ACP. Someday I might wish I could spray and pray, but I very much doubt it. No exotic playthings to mess up my standardization scheme but would still be fun to own.

 

[Correia]

Answer to all of them... Change your wardrobe.

And for the last one about SHTF. Take a rifle.

 

[Smoke]

I advocate shooting/training/CCW-ing with the same gun, or at least the same trigger platform all the time. When the balloon goes up, you don't want to have to remember which gun you have and how you manipulate it differently.

Bingo!


My guns:

Full Size Double stack 1911
Commander Size 1911
Sub Compact 1911
Colt Gov't Model .380

All have same trigger, same safety, same sights. Grip is a little different from a size standpoint. But all in all they are as close as you can get.
I'm not endorsing the 1911 platform, just pick a platform you like and stick with it. You could do the same thing with Sigs (for an example)

You'll sleep better at night.

Smoke