CFE Pistol (dirty / spitting)?

[ZenMoto]

Has anyone else worked up some loads with CFE Pistol, specifically for .45 acp?

I've been trying to find an accurate, low-recoil load with 200gr plated RN bullets from X-treme, with a c.o.l. of 1.250"

I don't have a chronograph, so I'm I'm not sure what velocities I'm getting, but starting at 6.0gr of CFE Pistol I get really dirty cases and a fair amount of spitting back (unburnt powder?). The load is very accurate out to about 20 yards (about as far as I am accurate shooting unsupported).

I've tested loads up to 6.6gr which still seem to spit a bit, but accuracy also seems to fall off north of 6.4gr.

...this is using CCI large pistol primers, FYI.

Hodgdon load data shows a minimum load of 6.3gr for JHP, but worked my way down to 6.0gr grain by grain to ensure it fired reliably with the plated round nose bullets.

I'm no expert reloader, just hoping someone here my have some suggestions on how to deal with the spitting. As it stands, 6.4gr seems to be the best load ...but still dirty!

The top target shows 10 rounds with 6.4gr at 15 yards (with the two outliers in the upper right). So I'm very happy with the accuracy; not so much the crap hitting me in the face!



Thanks!

 

[joneb]

I've been trying to find an accurate, low-recoil load with 200gr plated RN bullets from X-treme, with a c.o.l. of 1.250"

I load those bullets at 1.265" for two 1911's. If you are looking for a low velocity target load I would find a faster powder.
I'm not familiar with CFE pistol but it seems to fall on the slower end for burn speed in 45acp if so I would up the charge.
Powers that are to slow for a given cartridge may spit powder regardless of the charge.

 

[Liquidring]

I have started using CFE to load from .380 to 45acp, and like it, not dirty for me, but i load to max and sometimes a tad above using jacketed bullets. I practice with what i carry. The load data on Hodgdons site doesnt cover all the bullets i shoot, so i take thier data for said weight and load to said bullet OAL from that manufacturer, until I get what i am comfortable with on the chrono, recoil, and by checking fired cases, but as I said, I load it to the max. It gives good groups for me shooting from the back deck to the targets, which is about 35 yards.

 

[LiveLife]

200gr plated RN bullets from X-treme, with a c.o.l. of 1.250"

... starting at 6.0gr of CFE Pistol I get really dirty cases and a fair amount of spitting back ... tested loads up to 6.6gr which still seem to spit a bit, but accuracy also seems to fall off north of 6.4gr.

Hodgdon lists the burn rate of CFE Pistol to be slower than WSF/HS-6/AutoComp - https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2014-2015.pdf

IMO, powders slower burning than Unique/BE-86/Universal tends to burn more efficiently at high-to-near max load data and produce optimal accuracy.

200 GR. CAST LSWC CFE Pistol OAL/COL 1.225" Start 7.4 gr (1,042 fps) 15,000 PSI - Max 8.2 gr (1,142 fps) 19,600 PSI

If you are using regular plated X-Treme bullet, you should be referencing lead load data. Hodgdon lists 7.4/8.2 gr as start/max charge for 200 gr lead SWC bullet and I would suggest you conduct your powder work up from 7.4 gr for more efficient powder burn.

trying to find an accurate, low-recoil load

If you are looking for a low recoil load that is accurate, you won't find it with a slower burning powder. My suggestion would be using faster burning than Unique/BE-86/Universal powders like W231/HP-38/Red Dot/Promo/Bullseye.

Here's my compilation of "grouped" pistol powders by burn rate for reference - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9906849#post9906849

Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Ba10

No. 2 - Bullseye - Clays - WST - Red Dot/Promo - 700X - TiteGroup - Solo 1000 - Am. Select - International - Trail Boss - PB - N320 - Ba9 1/2

No. 5 - W231/HP-38 - Zip - Green Dot - SR7625 - N32C - A1

Slower burning pistol powders:

Unique - Universal - BE-86 - Power Pistol - WSF - N330 - Ba9

HS6 - AutoComp - CFE Pistol - Long Shot - Herco - 800X - True Blue - N340 - 3N37 - A0

No. 7 - SR4756 - Blue Dot - N350 - Ba7 1/2

No. 9 - Enforcer - W296/H110 - 2400 - Steel - SR4759 - H4227 - Lil'Gun - 3N38 - Ba6 1/2

 

[ZenMoto]

Wow, thanks guys. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

I think my next step is to test higher power loads and deal with the added recoil until I've used up the CFE.

Much appreciated.

 

[RPegram]

This past weekend I tested some 200gr lswc over 6.2 and 6.4 gr CFE Pistol with small pistol magnum CCI primers. They shot great out of my XDS 3.3. I tried 7.4 gr a few weeks ago, but they would about rip the pistol out of my hand they were so hot. I ended up shooting them out of my SR45 even though it despises the lswc profile, jams every 2-3 rounds. I also found 5.4 gr under a 230gr lrn to be very accurate. Again, spp magnum. All shot clean for me with pistols being cleaned easily and quickly after shooting.

I found the load data interesting because of how hot they recommended the 200gr lswc. It shows a heavier charge than a lighter bullet. I picked 6.2gr since it was in the middle for a lighter and heavier bullet. Neither the 6.2 under a 200gr lswc or 5.4gr under a 230gr lrn are mouse fart rounds.

Offtopic, but I also use this powder under 124gr lrn in 9mm. I found 5.0gr, which is max, gives the best performance. COL of 1.160". Awesome accuracy and no harsh recoil.

 

[Blue68f100]

Like already said most powders require you to be on the upper end for them to burn clean. There are a few powders that burn clean at low pressures, reduced loads. Most are used for shotgun loads. The one the burns the cleanest for me is WST, if you can find it. I've have only seen it twice in the last 3 yrs which I stocked back up on. 4.1gr of WST behind a 200gr LSWC will get you <2" group at 50 yrds with a BE gun. Provide you do your part.

 

[LiveLife]

I am guessing the OP is using regular primers not magnum primers like you.

Also, bullet seating depth has a lot to do with chamber pressure along with type of primers, amount of powder charge, type of bullet used (lead vs coated lead vs plated vs jacketed).

When I cannot find the load data specific to the bullet/type I am using, I will reference the most conservative load data. Since OP experienced inefficient powder burn with plated RN/1.250"/6.6 gr, work up towards higher powder charge would produce more efficient powder burn. IMO 200 gr RN at 1.250" would have shallower bullet seating depth than 200 gr SWC at 1.225".

 

[ZenMoto]

If you are using regular plated X-Treme bullet, you should be referencing lead load data. Hodgdon lists 7.4/8.2 gr as start/max charge for 200 gr lead SWC bullet and I would suggest you conduct your powder work up from 7.4 gr for more efficient powder burn.

I guess that's the thing I don't really understand despite all my reading. The shape & length of a plated round nose bullet is different from a wad cutter, or semi-wad cutter, so would I still use the c.o.l. from that load data? I understand the density would be (roughly) the same, but the seating depth may not be anywhere close.

What I don't want to do is make dangerously over-pressure rounds using too deep a seating depth.

...this is the part of loading that confuses me.

I really do appreciate the help guys, thanks a lot!

 

[Lethal rx7]

I have only loaded 9mm with cfe pistol. But i noticed it is a snappy feeling powder.

 

[rduckwor]

I agree with lethal. 4.5 Gr under a LRN 124 9MM is snappy. Not harsh, just snappy.

RMD

 

[USAav8r]

I had the same issue loading plated at the low to mid range charge hogdon lists for jacketed. Functioned great and seemed like it would be a great plinking load till I noticed unburnt powder on my hands and weapon. As others have already said, bumping up the charge takes care of it. 6.5 gr under 230 plated at 1.27"c.o.l. Is what I ended up sticking with.

 

[Blue68f100]

I guess that's the thing I don't really understand despite all my reading. The shape & length of a plated round nose bullet is different from a wad cutter, or semi-wad cutter, so would I still use the c.o.l. from that load data? I understand the density would be (roughly) the same, but the seating depth may not be anywhere close.

What I don't want to do is make dangerously over-pressure rounds using too deep a seating depth.

...this is the part of loading that confuses me.

I really do appreciate the help guys, thanks a lot!

COAL is gun specific. This needs to be determined before you workup your loads. Every bullet weight/shape/mfg is different. A different profile impacts feeding. So the OAL needs to be determined before the load workup. Even after that you may still need to tweak the OAL once you actually start testing them.

With most all powders there is an optimum pressure range that is needed to get a complete clean burn. This can be accomplished by adding more powder or by reducing the case volume.

 

[41 Mag]

I just loaded up my first several hundred test loads with it this past weekend and finishing up this week.

I have plenty to shoot up in both 9mm and 45 ACP so I will give some input, once I get some downrange this weekend.

I usually run either Bullseye for target loads or AA powders for the upper end stuff, but decided to give the CFE a try since I will also be breaking in my new P226 as well. I figured with four 20rd mags it might come in handy with it.

 

[Dudedog]

Still working on loads for it but I have some chrono numbers from a first test in .45 APC.
Got rained out so no chance to check accuracy.

CFE pistol is slower than the powders I normally use in .45, but am giving it a try.

Note: 6.9 and 7.2 are lower than Hodgdons recommended start charge.
They show start 7.4 at 1042.

Cirtadel 1911 .45 APC 1.25 OAl MBC 200gr SWC
CFE Pistol 6.9gr
966
973
959
972
958
AVG 965.60
SD 7.02
PF 183.5
ES 15

CFE Pistol 7.2gr
1001
1005
1018
1006
1012
AVG 1008.40
SD 6.66
PF 201.7
ES 17