Charging the PCP

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jmorris

jmorris

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Looking again at PCP air rifles and made it to the same spot I did last time before buying a springer, filling it up.

Not really interested in pumping manually but enjoy building things and it wouldn't be too hard to automate one, even with timers to control duty cycle to help the pump live.

Never really messed with that high of pressure air pumps but wouldn't mind going that route if I knew more about them, like a "shoe box how to".

I also have some air over hydraulic boosters that develop 3500 psi from 90 psi input. An interesting concept, might be able to make something that say could be put into my 30 ton log splitter and have a full tank in a few minutes, or let the boosters cycle for a while.?

I already have argon and co2 tanks I use for welding but they don't come with enough pressure to fill the rifles I am looking at; however, I could always swap out one of my tanks for a nitrogen and that might be the best way cost and time wise.

What have the PCP experts here come up with for their solution?
 
If you have CO2 and Argon then you no doubt have a source for tanks, so I'd ask them about a 4500psi N2 tank. A tank of say 60" tall and 8" or so around will fill a gun many many times. Here's a cool calculator for checking out tanks: https://sye.dk/airgun/
 
I like the Nitrogen idea too, if you are willing to buy the tank or pay for the rental, I think N2 tanks go as high as 6k? Definitely want to regulate it down to slow down the fill, but that's easy enough.

Big heavy tanks aren't good for going to the range though, better for the home range.


I've seen youtube videos of guys who built electric pumps with their hand pumps, but I don't see the point. You get a good hand pump (300 bucks) plus all the extras like the motor and the frame and the joints and the linkages and you are closing in on the 600 bucks it costs to get a shoebox pump.

Either way, you have the same issue as with the heavy tank, it doesn't go to the range very easily.


Consider this, though, if you buy a shoebox (4500 psi) and pay attention when filling your guns so you don't over fill them, you could eventually buy a tank and you have the means to fill the tank. If you build your own with a 3300 psi hand pump, you don't have a good way to fill up a 4500 psi tank if you buy one down the road.

I don't find hand pumping bothersome, myself, but if you do, I'd say go for the shoebox or for the big tanks.
 
My best option for high volume shooting was to lease a 4500 psi, 444 cu ft. steel bottle from a welding supply store. You will most likely run out of pellets before you empty that thing. If you don't run out of pellets let me know and I will help you shoot them. Seriously though it is a wonderful option for the budget minded. You will need an adapter that pyramid air sells "$100.00" to hook up to a CGA 347 to a foster quick connect fitting on your PCP. Refills are around $25.00 when needed "lots of shots".
 
I have a few tanks I could trade out but the regulators I have top out at 4000 psi.

I do have a number of pneumatic cylinders and pneumatic solenoids/switches that I could setup to operate a manual pump off of a regular compressor (90-125 psi). That may be the best bet for me as I have normal air compressors at home, farm and portable that could be used.

Any information on stroke and force required to operate hand pumps?

If you have information could you list brand/model info with stroke/force?
 
Thinking of rigging up controls like this. So the "switches" are triggered at each end of the stroke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0MR2eHQSAE

With a longer ram like this one, to operate the high pressure pump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz9xlL3F37c


Could stay away from electric this way and just use a truck mounted "normal" air compressor if I needed to.

Something like this would be pretty easy too. As I have 12vdc-110vac power inverters as well. Would also be less work to include duty cycle timers into it from what I already have.

ABP-1.jpg
 
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I'm not sure on the stroke length on mine (hill MK3) but when you push close to 3000 psi the force gets up there. I know some people have trouble getting it to go down with all of their weight on it. It could easily be 150ish pounds. I'm a heavy guy so it's hard for me to gauge, since it's not all that close to my weight.

But consider that if you are running even 100 psi for your pneumatic rams, you are talking about an awful lot of air to drive that pump. I highly doubt that you will be able to run it off of that harbor freight special. A truck mounted, if it's a big one, like what you see on road service trucks or welding trucks (I'm assuming that's what you are talking about) might do it but maybe not very quickly. I'm guessing that electric is simply a better choice there.

Also consider what it takes to cool the pump if you get going to quickly.

If you do go with this sort of setup be sure to set it up in a way that you will be able to take it apart easily and use the hand pump as a hand pump. That will be handy sometimes if you want to be able to refill somewhere where you can't take your whole compressor set up.


Is it really worth all of this to save a few bucks though?


Another thought, if you know a thing or two about doing all of this, have you considered building your own shoebox style compressor? I don't think it would be too terribly difficult.
 
I figured if I went electric I would just have it stroke the same speed one would run manually with a duty cycle timer of 15 min off for every 5 min on (about right from what I have read).

I have looked into building a shoebox style compressor but have yet to find much detail on them.

Worth it to save a few bucks? I don't know, as I said in the first post, this conundrum is why I passed on PCP's for the last air rifle I bought. I have interest but pumps that are not manual can double the investment.

I also have a lot of "stuff" and enjoy building/learning.
 
jmorris said:
I figured if I went electric I would just have it stroke the same speed one would run manually with a duty cycle timer of 15 min off for every 5 min on (about right from what I have read).

I have looked into building a shoebox style compressor but have yet to find much detail on them.

Worth it to save a few bucks? I don't know, as I said in the first post, this conundrum is why I passed on PCP's for the last air rifle I bought. I have interest but pumps that are not manual can double the investment.

I also have a lot of "stuff" and enjoy building/learning.
Click to expand...
Well, it's definitely an investment. The way I see it, the manual pump I buy now, as well as an electric I may buy in the future, along with any tanks I would like to buy, are expensive, but will work just as well on any PCPs I buy. I could get high dollar match grade rifles, hunting rifles, different calibers, big bores, whatever I want, and with the addition of maybe a different adaptor, I can fill any gun I want. But yes, it is a significant initial investment.


Like I said, I would imagine electric is better than pneumatic for what you are trying to do. If you have high flow compressors and want to use them for that, along with most of the stuff you would need to set this up, then sure, go for the pneumatic.


When I pump manually, I have to pause a second or two at the top and bottom of the stroke. The way I've seen powered pumps working, they don't really do this, so there may be a small amount of waste. Waste equals more wear and tear on your pump for the same amount of results (air pumped).

Get the Hill pump. It can be rebuilt, and it is designed to be rebuilt. The rebuild kits are expensive but my understanding is you usually only need one or two o rings that can be had for cheaply.

Actually, I've heard the new Air Venturi pump can go up to 4500, so it may be able to fill some tanks. I don't know how well it works, but I think it can be rebuilt as well, I believe it comes with 5 rebuild kits.

But don't go cheap and get the crosman version or another cheaper pump. You'll be putting a good bit of wear on it and you want to be able to rebuild it as needed, probably a little bit more than manually pumping, but probably a lot more if you shoot more as a result of not having to pump by hand.
 
jmorris,


The fitting I use is more of an adapter than a regulator. If you call Pyramid Air and ask for a 4500 PSI CGA 347 adapter they should know what to get you. I really like the three point tractor pump. They got the gear ratio set up pretty well. I think firing up the tractor every 60 shots might get old after a while but still very cool.
 
I looked at the PTO pump as more funny than practical.

Called my local suppliers of compressed gasses and 6000 psi nitrogen is something they don't carry.

With further searching, given that I already have compressed co2 and argon along with normal air compressors, something like this booster pump looks promising.

Not that different than the air over hydraulic boosters I have in operation just a little less volume.

A lot less work than a shoebox compressor that requires an air compressor and electricity to work.
 
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