Charles Daly o/u

[Jason_W]

Does anyone have any hams on experience with these?

I know that conventional wisdom is that you’re not supposed to spend less than a month’s wages on a double, but some of their offerings look enticing at prices that are less than a browning but more than a Stoeger.

I’m assuming they are of Turkish manufacture.

 

[eastbank]

for normal hunting it may be ok, but for long term clays shooting games it may not be a good idea. on the three-four clubs I shoot the clays games there are none being used.

 

[cdb1]

I assume you are talking about the new Charles Daly? The old company that went out of business sold some pretty high quality O/U’s, I think SKB, Beretta and Miroku made some of them.

I didn’t know the Charles Daly name had been revived again until I read this thread and looked on the web. I’d bet these shotguns are either Turkish or made to a price point by Fausti. I’d also be willing to bet they are better than Stoeger O/U’s which are made in South America.

I believe O/U and SxS shotguns prove the adage, “You get what you pay for”, better than just about any product made today.

A months wages today will buy a seriously nice shotgun.

 

[Jason_W]

I don’t ever see myself going through thousands of rounds a month with any shotgun. Maybe a few hundred at most.

I might be able to informally shoot a little trap for fun 1-3 times a month. Time and budget won’t allow me more than that.

Hopefully I’ll get to hunt again soon, but my round counts are pretty low for that activity.

My big reservation with trying an off brand is mfr support if something breaks. Also nightmarishly heavy triggers. Yeah, it’s a shotgun, but 10 lbs is way too much.

 

[cdb1]

Heavy triggers seem endemic to lower cost O/U’s.

 

[eastbank]

along with other problems that will come to light with prolonged use.

 

[Jason_W]

It’s interesting. A very durable pump action can be had for $600 or less, but not a double.

I get that proper barrel regulation is a painstaking art form, but I’d think that a rugged til the end of Time double with mediocre barrel regulation could be made in the $600 to $800 range.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I know a little about them...The more desirable ones are made in Japan by Miroku, the makers of Browning shotguns.

I have a really nice Charles Daly that is Italian made. I use it to shoot informal clays. Never had a problem with it.

 

[cdb1]

It’s interesting. A very durable pump action can be had for $600 or less, but not a double.

I get that proper barrel regulation is a painstaking art form, but I’d think that a rugged til the end of Time double with mediocre barrel regulation could be made in the $600 to $800 range.

A good double requires much more hand fitting than a pump or semi.

 

[Jason_W]

A good double requires much more hand fitting than a pump or semi.

I get that from a fit and finish standpoint. But is the lockup and trigger group etc. that much more complex than a pump/auto/single?

I’m talking about breakage. Why is it that you can beat the snot out of an 870 police model and it will keep going, but an $800 double will apparently disintegrate after a few thousand rounds.

Are doubles just an inherently weaker design?

 

[George P]

It’s interesting. A very durable pump action can be had for $600 or less, but not a double.

I get that proper barrel regulation is a painstaking art form, but I’d think that a rugged til the end of Time double with mediocre barrel regulation could be made in the $600 to $800 range.

You would be wrong. There is a LOT of labor involved in making a double gun

 

[eastbank]

this miroku made 20ga doublebarrel browning BSS sporter made in the late 70,s has fired thousands of factory and reloads with out any FTF-FTE,s in over 40 years of use by three generations. and my browning BT-100 has been fired over 40 thousand times, mostly with reloads at trap with out any thing going wrong, other than being cleaned after use.

 

[PapaG]

I had a Miroku Charlie and it was great. My buddy now has it and it is doing well. Can't say anything about the new ones. I have not been overly impressed by anything in the o/u style from Turkey. Stoegers, also, seem to be stiff, poorly fitted and erratic as shooters. Seen a lot of new shooters quickly tire of the Turks and others in the two clubs where I shoot.
Shop around. In the past six years I have bought a 1964 Superposed Lightning for $850, a Citori for $775, and several BTs for under a grand.

 

[cdb1]

Superposed and BSS are my kind of shotguns.

 

[cdb1]

I get that from a fit and finish standpoint. But is the lockup and trigger group etc. that much more complex than a pump/auto/single?

I’m talking about breakage. Why is it that you can beat the snot out of an 870 police model and it will keep going, but an $800 double will apparently disintegrate after a few thousand rounds.

Are doubles just an inherently weaker design?

I’m not sure.

 

[PapaG]

Good doubles, 21s, Foxes, LC Smith, Parker, BSS, will be shooting long after we're gone. Some good English, Italian and Spanish stuff out there. Cheap stuff doesn't have the fit and tolerances. Connecticut Arms is bringing back the quality stuff and doing it with cnc, investment casting and good planning. Not gonna come from China, Turkey, or India.

 

[George P]

Good doubles, 21s, Foxes, LC Smith, Parker, BSS, will be shooting long after we're gone. Some good English, Italian and Spanish stuff out there. Cheap stuff doesn't have the fit and tolerances. Connecticut Arms is bringing back the quality stuff and doing it with cnc, investment casting and good planning. Not gonna come from China, Turkey, or India.

And not gonna be priced at $800 or less....................

My S&W Elite Gold SxS was made in Turkey, as was Kimber 7-pin true sidelock. If bought on close-out, they are now worth twice that as used guns, Mine is a true triggerplate gun, ala the original Scottish John Dickson, with round action, real bone and charcoal case colored hardening, and engine-turned internals. Cabelas sells them now as Dickinson. Buy cheap, you get cheap. Buy quality, you get quality. The Turks can easily rival the Spanish at the same high price point. . They can also equal the same cheap crap from China and Brazil at that price point. The importer/distributor determines that.

 

[Jason_W]

I guess I'll stick to pumps and maybe a single shot or two. Doubles are beautiful and have that classic appeal, but the pragmatist in me just can't see spending thousands on a double when a decent pump is a fraction of the cost and just as (or more durable) than a double.

My standards for a firearm are actually pretty low. It just has to reliably go bang when I pull the trigger and be able able to endure years of rough treatment without breaking.

 

[jaguarxk120]

I get that from a fit and finish standpoint. But is the lockup and trigger group etc. that much more complex than a pump/auto/single?

I’m talking about breakage. Why is it that you can beat the snot out of an 870 police model and it will keep going, but an $800 double will apparently disintegrate after a few thousand rounds.

Are doubles just an inherently weaker design?

How many 416 Rigby's or 500 Nitro express pump guns out there?
The doubles (SxS or O/U are simpler and reliable than a repeater, when you face game that can kill you,
you want the best out there.

 

[icanthitabarn]

I know a little about them...The more desirable ones are made in Japan by Miroku, the makers of Browning shotguns.

I have a really nice Charles Daly that is Italian made. I use it to shoot informal clays. Never had a problem with it.

View attachment 790040

I have a, similar looking, shotgun with duel triggers. Its the Field model made in 1980. As pointed out above, I believe it was made by Fausti, but finding out seems like it requires a trip to Italy. Pretty nice gun, but no fancy engraving.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Looks like your engraving and mine are the same.

 

[joed]

I get that from a fit and finish standpoint. But is the lockup and trigger group etc. that much more complex than a pump/auto/single?

I’m talking about breakage. Why is it that you can beat the snot out of an 870 police model and it will keep going, but an $800 double will apparently disintegrate after a few thousand rounds.

Are doubles just an inherently weaker design?

Wish I had an answer for you but I don't. I do think doubles are a complex design. In 2007 I was talked into buying a Ruger Red Label thinking it would be a decent shotgun. Don't think I put 300 rounds through it before it started to malfunction, with the upper barrel not firing on usually 2 rounds out of a box. Ruger quit making them so it couldn't be sent back to Ruger because there were very few parts left. That shotgun spent more time with gunsmiths then it did with me and that was when I saw the light. I quickly sold it and moved on to a used Browning Superposed. That was my lesson on O/U shotguns, spend the money for a good gun.

I will never own another double. If I had to do it over again I'd buy an auto, they work.

 

[Rob1035]

My father has a new CD o/u (2012 maybe?). While I'm sure it doesn't have the fit and finish of a higher end double, it is certainly functional, and does well on the clays when the shooter does their part. We are purely recreational clay shooters, maybe 4 times a year, so no leagues, competitions or high round counts. For his uses, the CD is fine.

 

[George P]

If your CD is Italian, there will be all sorts of identifying marks inside the receiver and on the barrels. It should also say what country it was made (if not by whom)l otherwise the marks should help identify proof, chokes (if fixed) barrel diameter, etc.

But is the lockup and trigger group etc. that much more complex than a pump/auto/single?

I’m talking about breakage. Why is it that you can beat the snot out of an 870 police model and it will keep going, but an $800 double will apparently disintegrate after a few thousand rounds.

Are doubles just an inherently weaker design?

Not at all. But CHEAP doubles are just that cheap. A SxS with 2 triggers has two complete trigger assemblies in small space - that's the locks, sears, triggers, hammers, etc.
Most folks raised only on lumps or semis do not get the better handling qualities of a better-made SxS or O/U. It isn't just about engraving or wood, but more about fine balance, perfect fit, and hours of craft labor assembling it all so it performs as it is supposed to.

Some folks appreciate that artistry/craftsmanship that goes into those guns, and some do not. And that's just fine; not everyone can appreciate or want to own something like a Patek Phillipe watch or Ferrari either..........

If what you have works for you, that is what counts.

 

[Jason_W]

If your CD is Italian, there will be all sorts of identifying marks inside the receiver and on the barrels. It should also say what country it was made (if not by whom)l otherwise the marks should help identify proof, chokes (if fixed) barrel diameter, etc.


Not at all. But CHEAP doubles are just that cheap. A SxS with 2 triggers has two complete trigger assemblies in small space - that's the locks, sears, triggers, hammers, etc.
Most folks raised only on lumps or semis do not get the better handling qualities of a better-made SxS or O/U. It isn't just about engraving or wood, but more about fine balance, perfect fit, and hours of craft labor assembling it all so it performs as it is supposed to.

Some folks appreciate that artistry/craftsmanship that goes into those guns, and some do not. And that's just fine; not everyone can appreciate or want to own something like a Patek Phillipe watch or Ferrari either..........

If what you have works for you, that is what counts.

Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the artistry and craftsmanship, I just can’t justify ponying up several mortgage payments for it.

$1000 a year for a gun budget is really all I can responsibly do. Maximum reliability for the dollar trumps all other factors given the above.

If I was a major clays competitor with prize money on the line, I could see investing in a high dollar piece. But without a possibility of a decent ROI, it’s a no go.