Choke? Choke?? We Don't Need No STINKING Choke!

[Ugly Sauce]

35 yards, no choke. And that's no joke. She was already loaded with a .690" chewed ball, .023" patch over 130 grains of 1fg, so that's what the big hole just left of the neck is. 50 yards, and only one inch left of where I was aiming. Elevation, exactly where I was aiming. Too cool to have one's first shot from a cold clean barrel go right where you want it.

The shot load is around 1.75 ounce of #4's with some smaller shot mixed in, and 110 grains of 1.5fg Swiss. Turkey opens up the 15th, I think I'm ready, although those crazy birds have not started gobbling yet, as far as I know.

Bessie says: "Thanks for listening".

 

[Armored farmer]

Be still, my heart.....a smoothie!
I'm waiting for kibler to offer a kit.

I got this jake back in '16 with my navy arms sxs 12ga percussion. 1¼Oz #4 80gr 2f. Veg Fiber wad, beer carton punched over powder and double over shot card.
Man, that was fun!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Dang right! NOTHING like seeing a Turk flopping on the ground (or dead still) after the smoke clears. I would sure like a ML side-by-side, but I couldn't do that to Bessie. I did take a turk a couple years ago with my Grand-Dad's double 12 gauge hammer gun. I think he would have liked that. Used black powder shells of course.

Kibler hasn't got in on the trade-gun market yet? I'm surprised.

 

[hawg]

As near as I can tell Kibler only offers three rifle kits and they look like slightly different versions of the same rifle. I've got two SXS muzzleloaders. An original Ancion 12 gauge made in Belgium and a Pedersoli 12 gauge from before they chrome lined the barrels and thickened them up to accept chokes. It's light, less than 6 pounds and handles like the Ancion does. Most muzzleloading shotguns aren't choked

 

[Armored farmer]

Dang right! NOTHING like seeing a Turk flopping on the ground (or dead still) after the smoke clears. I would sure like a ML side-by-side, but I couldn't do that to Bessie. I did take a turk a couple years ago with my Grand-Dad's double 12 gauge hammer gun. I think he would have liked that. Used black powder shells of course.

Kibler hasn't got in on the trade-gun market yet? I'm surprised.

There is talk that maybe he will soon.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

There is talk that maybe he will soon.

I bet he/them (he must have some help) are very busy just getting the rifles out. But the trade-guns are very popular and would certainly be a money maker.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

As near as I can tell Kibler only offers three rifle kits and they look like slightly different versions of the same rifle. I've got two SXS muzzleloaders. An original Ancion 12 gauge made in Belgium and a Pedersoli 12 gauge from before they chrome lined the barrels and thickened them up to accept chokes. It's light, less than 6 pounds and handles like the Ancion does. Most muzzleloading shotguns aren't choked

Wow, an under six pound side by side 12??? That would be the ultimate trekking gun. Bet it would kick a little with a heavy ball load!!! No, most are not choked and don't need to be. Not saying I'm "anti-choke", my double barrel hammer shell-gun is modified and full, and it works excellent. I used it for many years on ducks and upland birds. Just saying that with a ML, you can get very good patterns with load development. And you can use as much shot as one would like, as capacity is not limited to what the shell would hold.

 

[hawg]

Wow, an under six pound side by side 12??? That would be the ultimate trekking gun. Bet it would kick a little with a heavy ball load!!!

I'm not recoil sensitive at all but a .690 ball in front of 100 grains of 2F lets you know you did something when you drop the hammer on it.

 

[1KPerDay]

That's a hefty load in a man's gun. Looks like it works!

 

[hawg]

I wouldn't want to try a load that heavy in my Pedersoli. I'm afraid it would break the stock a the wrist.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I wouldn't want to try a load that heavy in my Pedersoli. I'm afraid it would break the stock a the wrist.

There is always that. That's what I like about old Bessie, you can load it up until your fillings start shaking loose and you are seeing double. But she has some weight to her too, she's a stout lass. The most I've loaded under a ball in her is 140 grains, and that was still very manageable.

I have a five pound single shot shell-gun, 12 gauge 3" magnum. I got it sighted in with slugs, but I will never fire it again with those 3" magnum slugs, and I am not recoil sensitive. Those were a bit "over the top", even for me, so unless Grizz tries to take me to dinner...!!!

 

[hawg]

I used to shoot 2 3/4 slugs out of a single barrel with a full choke. Dunno if that would be as bad as a 3 inch out of a cylinder bore.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I used to shoot 2 3/4 slugs out of a single barrel with a full choke. Dunno if that would be as bad as a 3 inch out of a cylinder bore.

Trust me, the three-inchers are NASTY. They are pretty bad out of my Mossy pump, although that gun has too high of a comb, so it pounds my face pretty good. I wouldn't be afraid to fire a few in it though, but never again in that five pound gun...other than life or death.

 

[hawg]

The only three inch I've fired was accidentally fired out of my 1887 Winchester. I don't remember it kicking all that hard but it wasn't a slug. I thought the gun blew up. No damage was done to the gun but the case head separated.

 

[J-Bar]

In his masterpiece, Shotguns And Shooting, Michael Mcintosh devotes a chapter on chokes. He makes the point that a cylinder bored barrel with modern shot cups can kill game birds out to 50 yards or more.

Just thought you might like to know you are in good company!!

 

[hawg]

A paper cup helps too. I'm not running plastic down my bore.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

As near as I can tell Kibler only offers three rifle kits and they look like slightly different versions of the same rifle. ...

Kibler offers the Colonial Rifle Kit with smoothbore barrels in .50, .54, and .58. This would allow one to build a "smooth rifle," which is a smoothbore with the architecture of a rifle.

I just wish he'd make left handed kits.

 

[woodnbow]

The only three inch I've fired was accidentally fired out of my 1887 Winchester. I don't remember it kicking all that hard but it wasn't a slug. I thought the gun blew up. No damage was done to the gun but the case head separated.

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My buddy Stan bought a box of 3” goose loads, lead BB if I recall correctly. We were probably all of ten years old. Fired them in his H&R single barrel and I remember they kicked like hell which we all thought was grand. I’d noticed sometimes the shells didn’t eject completely and finally read the script on the side of the barrel. 12 ga. 2-3/4”. Hmmm… “Hey Stan… I don’t think we’re supposed to use these in here…”

 

[Ugly Sauce]

My buddy Stan bought a box of 3” goose loads, lead BB if I recall correctly. We were probably all of ten years old. Fired them in his H&R single barrel and I remember they kicked like hell which we all thought was grand. I’d noticed sometimes the shells didn’t eject completely and finally read the script on the side of the barrel. 12 ga. 2-3/4”. Hmmm… “Hey Stan… I don’t think we’re supposed to use these in here…”

Shotguns can be pretty forgiving. My Grand-dad's double barrel I have, made in or before 1914, I hunted for years with it, with no clue that it was/is actually a black powder gun. I used to shoot those "baby magnums" in it (2&3/4") before 3" was invented. That gun got pretty loose after years of that and I stopped using it. Then later rebuilt it and tightened it back up, and now shoot it with black powder only. But wow I ran a lot of smokeless shells through it, and a whole box of the "Baby Magnums".

 

[Ugly Sauce]

A paper cup helps too. I'm not running plastic down my bore.

Put a wrap of paper around the plastic cup. A cup within a cup. The bore will never know.

 

[hawg]

Shotguns can be pretty forgiving. My Grand-dad's double barrel I have, made in or before 1914, I hunted for years with it, with no clue that it was/is actually a black powder gun. I used to shoot those "baby magnums" in it (2&3/4") before 3" was invented. That gun got pretty loose after years of that and I stopped using it. Then later rebuilt it and tightened it back up, and now shoot it with black powder only. But wow I ran a lot of smokeless shells through it, and a whole box of the "Baby Magnums".

I got my 1887 Winchester when I was 11. I didn't know anything about short chambers and apparently my dad didn't either. I hunted with and had fun with it for years with 2 3/4 smokeless loads and no telling how many SXS's I shot 2 3/4 smokeless loads out of Damascus barrels. I think I was 17 when I got a Savage Pump but I still used the 1887 some. Later on I found out the 87 had a 2 5/8 chamber.

 

[Patocazador]

I have a 10 ga. Browning auto that shoots a 3 1/2" shell. Before they outlawed lead for waterfowl, my friend and I went out on a lake that was infested with coots. Some guy in the next county asked if we would kill some coots for him because he loved the gizzards. With a limit of 15 each we took turns shooting after rowing near a bunch and see how many we could get with one shot of 3 1/2" #2 magnums.

I won with 8, he had 6. After we each shot once, he said, "Your turn." I decided to pass. My shoulder hurt for two days.

 

[earlthegoat2]

A friend of mine has an 8 bore Fowler he let me use.

I loaded 36 pellets of #4 TSS buckshot in front of 100 gr 1F for a deer hunt.

I got a shot at 40 yds and found 21 pellet holes…all pass throughs. Needless to say the deer dropped like a sack of po-tay-toes. I usually aim at the base of the neck where it meets the shoulder with buckshot but I inched it over to the mid neck because of the range. I estimate that 16 of the 21 pellets would have been a fatal wound if that was the only pellet that hit.

 

[brewer12345]

Lightfield used to make 3.5 inch slugs. Not something I would ever buy, given that t rex is no more. The review on midway said something like "you could put a beer can in the entrance wound."

 

[paul harm]

So my friend Dave and I are BSing in the shotgun room - everyone else was out shooting, and we got talking about George Digweed from England. For those who don't know he is a world champion about 13 times or so, not sure. Anyways, he's breaking clay pigeons at a 130 yards with 1oz target loads [ so he claims as he holds one up ]. He claims at that distance the shot drops a lot and you have to let the bird drop into the pattern. So we surmised that some of the shot in the center of the pattern will always go straight no matter what the distance. The shot that got out of round from rubbing on the barrel or those that got flattened from set back when the shell went off are the ones that open up the pattern and they eventually fly off into never never land. At one time I shot a lot of smooth bore MLers but now limit my shooting MLers to my pistols and rifles. But I do shoot a ton of claybirds with my old SxSs - Remingtons, Parkers, and Lefevers, some with hammers and most are Damascus barrels and some with no chokes. On our SCs course most shots are under 50 yards and skeet or IC chokes work just fine. Our big saying is " chokes are over rated " and Ugly Sauce just kind a proved it.