Choosing the best bad outcome.

[jl1966]

I enjoy reading, and participating in the discussions on this site. The hypothetical or even recounting and discussion of real happenings, are very thought provoking. I often do my own little version of this with stories from the newspaper, trying to formulate a plan, As if I were in the same situation. It strikes me, however, that we all seem to search for the perfect outcome. When really there is none.

The best outcome likely is that you survived the encounter. You are probably going to have legal entanglements, possibly be charged with a crime yourself. Civil action is possible. You may also be injured yourself, even though you theoretically "won" the fight.

The thread on encountering a thief made me think about what I would do, if placed in that situation. What will the legal ramifications be? If I engage him physically, will I have a good chance of winning? Will it only escalate an already bad situation? What is the value of what I may lose, versus the expense and grief I may suffer if I engage the thief?

There really is never a good outcome to these types of situations. A trainer of mine once said " If you are in a self defense situation, it is already not your day, you can have the best equipment, the best training, and all the advantages, but just a tiny bit of luck in favor of your opponent can undo all of that."

Very true. Anyway. Just a random observation from me.

 

[hso]

Very good observation on your part.

I've been injured in one life and death situation and and have mild nightmares on rare occasion because of another. Even prevailing, these were the best bad outcomes.

It's good for people to have this pointed out.

 

[psyopspec]

Thinking back, it started for me with the list of outcomes that I will not allow be precipitated:

-I will not disarm for a violent criminal.
-I will not get on my knees or allow my hands to be tied; I absolutely refuse to die this way.

From there, the range of options are intended to get me as far from those two outcomes as possible. It's okay for a person to have an end state in mind, but it should be thought of as a goal rather than the only possible outcome. As someone once said, reality bites.

 

[Gouranga]

I agree with the OP. The best case for me is to not have someone else decide I am going to have a bad day today. If I am going into implementing S&T for dealing with a threat, then I am already having a bad day.

 

[Kleanbore]

" If you are in a self defense situation, it is already not your day, you can have the best equipment, the best training, and all the advantages, but just a tiny bit off luck in favor of your opponent can undo all of that."

That is very true indeed. I had never thought of it that way.

Here's another I had never thought of: I went into an attorney's office to have a discussion, and he asked why I needed a lawyer. I told him that I did not need one. He responded with "People who do not need lawyers are very lucky. When people do need lawyers, they are never happy with the process, the expense, the time involved, or the results".

 

[jl1966]

A story occurred to me that illustrates what I mean. This goes to the thread about physical fitness role in self defense as well as how your plan can go awry.

I worked with a man early in my career, he retired not too long after I was hired, maybe a year or two. He was a small little guy, probably 5'5 or so, if he went 150 lbs. I would be surprised, very small little old man.

A few years after his retirement I was reading the paper. He had apparently experienced some mental issues since retiring, and become abusive to his family. The family had moved to have him committed to an institution, and two local deputies had been sent to take him into custody. He was working in the garden when they arrived.

When they attempted to take him into custody a struggle ensued, the man picked up a hatchet and began to attack the deputies with it, knocking one to the ground. The other deputy ended up shooting and killing him.

Now, realize, this is a man of, at least seventy yrs. of age, and very small, not particularly fit. Yet he was able to gain the advantage over two trained LEO's, to the extent that they could not overcome him without use of deadly force. Now, yes, they probably took him lightly, and did not have their guards up, but still, this illustrates how things don't always go as you think they will.

I often think of this when someone talks about how they will do this or that if someone ever tries so and so with them. Now, I am sure people will chime in with reasons why the deputies could have handled this better, and they could have. That is not the point though.

The point is, though you may have studied the ancient art of facea breakius for many years, and can lift a refrigerator, and run around the world with an elephant on your back, or read every post on THR , and have your Sig or Glock, and all the goodies to go with it. If you get in a scrape, you better hope luck is on your side.

 

[Sgt_R]

Being armed and prepared to use deadly force is, IMO, an unfortunate necessity in this world. However, any day in which I even have to consider using a firearm in self defense is already a very bad day, and is rapidly on its way to getting much worse for everyone involved. It's not something to take lightly.

R

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Anytime you have to harm someone or kill them to protect yourself or someone else it is a bad outcome. But don't think this Preacher boy as concerned as I am about Lost Souls won't send one directly to see Jesus if need be.

 

[SSN Vet]

best of bad outcomes....

Wife and kids are unharmed and know that I love them and acted to protect them and that I acted with honor and charity towards others.... even if I go to jail or to meet my maker.... or send someone else hence forth.

 

[oldbanjo]

All this thinking can and will get you killed. If someone brakes in this house you can bet your butt I won't be thinking about anything but killing the intruder. I never want to kill anyone, but the intruder made the decision, It will be instinctive no thought involved.

 

[jae011]

if you make make it out of a life and death situation alive in my opinion that makes it a pretty good day. i understand how you wouldnt want to be in this kind of situation but i dont think that would be much of a concern....

 

[Corporal K]

Wife and kids are unharmed and know that I love them and acted to protect them and that I acted with honor and charity towards others.... even if I go to jail or to meet my maker.... or send someone else hence forth.

SSN Vet speaks the truth. If you have to go, go out with your boots on.

 

[psyopspec]

If you get in a scrape, you better hope luck is on your side.

No doubt. A soldier PTs the hell out of himself, he can run, he can jump, he can shoot, he can fight armed or unarmed, direct others in combat. Then he arrives in Afghanistan and the years of training do nothing against an incoming rocket, or an IED that no one could have seen.

I tell my guys that the reason we train hard is to gain a 1% advantage, to take it to 51-49 odds. I believe the analogy carries over. I'd take luck over skill anyday, but since I don't have the luxury of controlling the former I need to sharpen the latter.

 

[bikerdoc]

Thats why situational awareness and avoidance are premier skills to develop. They get you out of dodge before you have to make a decision to go to gun, knife, cane, or whatever else is handy.

 

[Mp7]

Once won a pub-brawl with a team of locals vs
3 BG who stumbled in there.

Victory wasnt as great, when i found my main arm-artery cut (!)
The Luck was, it was only a very shallow cut.

We felt and physically looked like on top of that situation,
but didn´t know who we were fighting against,
and that one of them would a small Brass-knuckle
type thing with blades on it.

AA is the best hand in poker. But 7-2 wins more often
against it, than one might think possible.

 

[Kleanbore]

I tell my guys that the reason we train hard is to gain a 1% advantage, to take it to 51-49 odds. I believe the analogy carries over. I'd take luck over skill anyday, but since I don't have the luxury of controlling the former I need to sharpen the latter.

Excellent philosophy.

 

[hso]

Going out with your boots on is a great philosophy that means live life don't just be an observer, but best to leave that to when it's actually necessary.

Necessary, in our context, means defending your life or the life of loved ones when evil forces you to. Be smart about it, be prepared to do it, but remember that if you can avoid it you're much better off than rushing in motivated by something other than preservation of your life and the lives of those dear to you.

 

[SleazyRider]

As an innocent, I find the notion of being victimized by our "justice" system more obnoxious than being the victim of a mere robbery. In other words, I don't wish to rightfully defend my property only to have to later defend myself, perhaps to the point of bankruptcy, from the very system that is supposed to protect me. This isn't the way I like it, it's the way it is.

Call it cowardice if you will, but I have homeowners insurance policy to protect property; a firearm to protect my family.