CLR for barrel cleaning

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cw308

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Read some posts on CLR and gave it a try . Im a benchrest shooter, I always start with a clean barrel , for my rifle it works for me . Ran a patch with CLR up an down in the clean barrel , the patch came out saturated with left over carbon , I was shocked . Dry patched it out an ran another CLR Patch it came out clean , dry patched out ,then followed with #9 and dry patched that out to be safe . Sunday is my range day , will see if there is a difference in grouping. It's worth a try if you shoot with what you think is a clean barrel .

Chris
 
That's true but see what it removes when you think your barrel is clean . I gave my rifle a good cleaning , when I was finished my patches came out clean . Read an artical on one of the forums on CLR for cleaning carbon in rifle barrels . I bought a ontainer of CLR to see . My clean barrel wasn't so clean , the patch came out saturated with carbon , second patch came out pretty clean . Don't take my word for it give it a try . Always looking for a better cleaner . Im running out of space though . I have a match Rock Creek barrel , so I am careful when trying something new .
P.S. Not much new in reloading except Federals new primers & now CLR
 
That's true but see what it removes when you think your barrel is clean .

12 molar sulfuric acid will remove stuff from the bore of a barrel, too, but that doesn't mean I want it anywhere near any gun I own.

According to the manufacturer's MSDS, CLR is a mixture of two acids (lactic and gluconic) and a surfactant called Lauryldimethylamine Oxide (LDAO). The long-term effects of the acids on the steel of the barrel may be debated, but what would concern me is that LDAO is strongly hydrophilic, meaning it attracts moisture.
 
Product Name CLR® PRO CALCIUM, LIME & RUST REMOVER
Restrictions on Use Incompatible with strong oxidizing agents, metals (except stainless steel, chrome),
acids, bases, and bleach...
https://clrbrands.com/proline/sds

Component CAS# OSHA HAZARD % by Weight
1. Lactic Acid 79-33-4 YES 5.00-18.00
2. Lauramine Oxide 1643-20-5 YES 1.50-7.50
 
Hmmmmm.....

Like many "...it really gets it clean..." solutions and methods,
would it really hurt a barrel if/when followed w/ CLP ?
 
No rifle barrel is clean after the first cleaning. Clean it when you get home, then clean it again a few days later. You'll always get more crud out. I'll pass on putting acidic stuff down my bore. Even if you do patch it well afterward, what about the few drips that always find their way into the action and such?
 
I've used a virtual chemistry set over the years, but read the post about CLR and couldn't bring myself to put it in a rifle barrel. Might be fine, but....

A while back, a friend brought over his new bore scope which revealed that many rifles I thought were clean had both copper and carbon fouling remaining. Since I had cleaned my rifles faithfully, whether they had been fired once or 300 rounds at a match, this came as quite a surprise so I ordered a Lyman bore scope and half a dozen additional solvents from Brownell's and set out to determine the most effective ones based on fact, not supposition. The old standby's obviously were not doing the job. (The scope is still on sale @ Brownell's for $175).

The scope quickly reveals that a white patch is no guarantee that all copper has been removed. After cleaning w/conventional solvents (including occasionally with JB and Gold Medallion abrasives) and achieving the white patch. This was a factory 308 Win barrel which has been lapped, yet shows both carbon and copper fouling after old methods produced a "white patch". It shoots moa with occasional 3/4" but only with 3 bullets (of dozens tried).

27521658567_6bac7b9e53_o.jpg 41668277774_ac0787d9d6_o.jpg

This picture is another factory barrel (338 WM) which has not been lapped which shoots .210 gr. NP's in the .5's w/boring regularity and sometimes a bit better with NAB's & NBT's. Just goes to show you, some pretty rough bores shoot surprisingly well.

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This barrel had been cleaned and put away after achieving the "white patch", using my old conventional cleaning procedure. Tool marks are quite visible and the large copper patch in left picture was a fairly large pit. Suspect this was a flaw in the barrel blank but cannot be sure as I was not original owner of this rifle.

After trying the new (to me) solvents I found Tactical Advantage (by the same folks who make Wipeout) to be the most effective at removing both carbon and copper. I found most of the other copper solvents to be less effective on powder fouling. I apply TA to an IOSSO brush and scrub bore ten or twelve strokes, allow to sit overnight, repeat if necessary. This removed the remaining copper and traces of carbon left after cleaning the old way.

"Even if you do patch it well afterward, what about the few drips that always find their way into the action and such?"

A good bore guide eliminates this problem, and I stand my rifles muzzle down to eliminate the possibility of any preservative draining into action while stored.

Regards,
hps
 
My barrel is S S as far as cleaners , Im sure most of us started using cleaners that others have tried and recommend without knowing the chemistry . If it works it works . After what I felt was a clean barrel and I ran a patch with CLR , what ever came out shouldn't have been in there . It surprised me , even though making sure no chemicals were left by dry patching afterwards . You don't have to try it , Im just putting it out there for people that want to try new things . If whenever you .cleaned your barrel clean with your best cleaner and CLR gets more grime out with no effort , it deserves a second look .
 
12 molar sulfuric acid will remove stuff from the bore of a barrel, too, but that doesn't mean I want it anywhere near any gun I own.

According to the manufacturer's MSDS, CLR is a mixture of two acids (lactic and gluconic) and a surfactant called Lauryldimethylamine Oxide (LDAO). The long-term effects of the acids on the steel of the barrel may be debated, but what would concern me is that LDAO is strongly hydrophilic, meaning it attracts moisture.


Chem major...
 
Yep, I know....just color me paranoid, but with the plethora of dedicated bore cleaners on the market, I'm just leery of chemicals made for use in "other than" firearms. A lot of shooters swear by outboard carbon treatment, as well. Not knocking either, as I never tried them. I have used some pretty strong bore cleaners over the years. Sweets, Butch's, Montana Extreme and other ammonia based cleaners, but only according to instructions. I try to avoid abrasives as much as possible, too. The scope lets me actually see which solvent does best in a particular rifle, but be prepared for some surprises before you look through one. :)

Regards,
hps
 
Boretech “Eliminator” - zero odor and melts copper/ carbon like “bud-da”. I have been using it for years with no ill effect sans one - do not get it on a wood stock finish as it will dull (a buffing with gun oil removes the dull but now simply avoid contact). Like CLR, try it if you wish.
 
I recently switched to Butch's. That was a real eye opener after decades of Hoppes #9. Still not sure about acid in my barrel though. I was always under the impression that a certain amount of fouling fills in those imperfections in the bore and MAY show improvements in grouping. After a good cleaning I always fire 5 fouling shots before shooting for groups.
 
hps1: In your copper-cleaner trials, did you perchance test KG-12 ?

No sir. My test was far from comprehensive. Tried all the Wipeout products, three Montana Extreme products, and compared to older solvents I've used in the past, including Hoppes 9 & Benchrest, Shooter's Choice, Sweets, Butch's, CLP, FP 10, and my most recent favorite a 50-50 mix of Kroil/Benchrest, followed by an overnight soaking w/wipeout which usually passed the white patch test. Have also used JB paste and Gold Medallion abrasives sparingly as needed every few hundred rounds.

In all fairness, this go around I used the IOSSO blue brushes which seem to be a lot stiffer than the black nylon brushes I have used in the past and that may have given the TA an edge, but I am pleased with that combination so don't plan further testing at this time.

I did notice the warning on TA that it must not contact oil based stock finishes.

Regards,
hps
 
I have no doubt that it is a great cleaner, but I prefer to use something that has been formulated specifically not to harm firearms.
If it works it works .
I don't think you understood the replies. No one is arguing that it won't work. The concern is that it may, in addition to cleaning a barrel really, really well, damage the barrel or the finish of the gun. As others have pointed out, just because something works doesn't mean it's a good choice for a particular application.

There are cleaners you could use that would clean your teeth far better and faster than toothpaste or mouthwash but that would be highly inadvisable to put in your mouth.
 
Acid is used to clean concrete. You can remove rust stains, most anything that discolors the concrete.

Actually, it doesn’t really clean the concrete, it removes a microscopic layer of the concrete, which takes everything on the surface along with it.

I can assure you that most acids have a very negative reaction with most stainless. Removes the nickle and compromises the finish

You could use a nuclear blast as weed killer and it would be very effective, but I believe there would be undesirable side effects

In other words, no but thanks.
 
If you really want your bore clean, then electrolysis but not sure if you can use that process with a stainless steel barrel safely due to gas generated from the chromium--maybe hexavalent chromium if I remember correctly
https://chemistry.stackexchange.com...uring-electrolysis-using-a-stainless-steel-as
However, if you used an ordinary carbon steel rod with no chromium as anode, I believe that you would be ok. Look up the old Outers system and there are home brewed systems that can be made for little of nothing.

I use a homebrewed system on old milsurp barrels which aren't stainless steel fortunately but don't use them on barrels like the Arisaka which was chrome plated.
 
I wouldn't disagree with any of the posts on the CLR . Im always trying something , safely though . New cleaners I wouldn't let soak . The CLR I ran up & down maybe 10 times I was thinking it would come out fairly clean , it didn't . I take the time in giving my barrel a good cleaning each time I shoot it 30 rounds every Sunday weather permitting . A borescope is next on my list . I posted my experience with CLR . All came back with good advice . Thanks Guys , was putting off getting a borescope , it's the only way to really see whats going on inside . Cleaners on the shelf are Hoppes #9 , Wipe Out - Patch Out , JB Compound , Kroil oil , KG - 1 & KG - 12 , Ballistol , Montana Extreme & Sweets . My barrel is a SS match grade Rock Creek that I do baby . Im not a hardass where it's my way or the highway , but I do enjoy kicking the can down the road with you all . I forgot to mention CLR , sorry couldn't resist .
 
I understand your wanting to try the CLR, especially if I read the same article of which you spoke. I even went to store to look for some CLR as the author of the article I read is very savvy about firearms. I wanted to read the label and decide if I had the nerve to try it, but the stores I shopped didn't stock it and my attention span is not all that long. :rofl:

KG - 1 & KG - 12 , Ballistol
I have not tried any of the above, but have all the rest on your list. I am satisfied with the Tactical Advantage so probably won't continue my search........until I read about the latest greatest whatever. :)

All of my testing w/benfit of scope has been factory steel barrels, and we know that all barrels are not equal. I have a couple of stainless match barrels that have been cleaned using Benchrest to achieve white patch and I plan to take a look at them and see how much copper/powder fouling was left in them.

If you plan to purchase a Lyman bore scope and order from Brownell's, check to see if they are currently offering free shipping and check Lymans site, as they had a $25 rebate coupon when I got mine maybe 6-8 months ago.

Regards,
hps
 
I'll be honest guys, I tried just about everything hps1 did. *
My arm was getting tired and I needed soemthing that didn't take combined graduate degrees in both metallugy and electromagnetics.

Then I discovered THIS STUFF.... and never looked back.




*Back from nigh 10 years ago...
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=8928
Placed here (and in the Garand link6.gif Forum) since reloaders tend to be 'pickier' that most:

My Garand -- with a spotless bore -- is a copper hound when it comes to HXP ammo. In the past I had settled on Butch's BoreShine (having gone through Hoppe's Special, Shooter's Choice Copper Remover, Sweet's, Montana Extreme Copper Remover, MPro7 copper remover, multiple "copper-cleaning" foam cleaners, etc). An application of Butch's *always* came out indicating heavy blue after using these other cleaners.

Used alone (or after using MPro-7 powder solvent to get the regular fouling out), Butch's would come out *incredibly" blue, royal blue to the point that nearby shooters would go "Wow!" and ask how it was shooting with all that copper fouling. I'd show them the target in which it would inevitably hold a 99-100 6-8X off the bench even with Greek ammo. So Butch's was really finding what in other gun's would be a "so-what?" level of copper fouling.

But even with Butch's it would take 4-5 applications/soakings/scrubbings to get all the color out.

So after 20 rounds yesterday I just put one Butch's patch down the bore and cleaned up w/ Breakfree so as to deliberately leave copper. And today the KG-12 arrived in the mail.

I hauled the Garand out and ran a sloppy patch's-worth of KG-12 (water-based/no smell) to wet the bore, then used the same patch to scrub maybe 15-20 seconds,... and let it sit for 8-9 minutes. Dry patch/scrub-out and then a sloppy patch of Butch's to test the results with a 15-minute soak.

No color, nada, nunka, not a thing ….where normally Butch's would still be indicating considerable color.

I'm sold.
 
Since we no longer use ammo with corrosive primers (unless you are shooting mil sure ammo from WW2 or post war com-block) why the big deal about getting all the shot residue out of the barrel. I used Hoppes #9 for decades and now use CLP almost exclusively. Unless you can demonstrate that groups are bigger or smaller when shooting from a bench depending on the type of bore cleaner you use all this is bogus.
 
hps1
When I had my Rem700 blueprinted and a match barrel installed by Accurate Ordnance , I asked then what they recommend for cleaning the barrel . They said KG - 1 for carbon then KG -12 for copper. Being water bases run a patch of Hoppes#9 an dry patch . My barrel doesn't show signs of copper buildup only carbon . Have to pull the trigger on a Lyman Bore scope to really see what's going on . I am careful with my barrel but will try something new , I did run a patch using CLR . it surprised me how brown the patch came out . Then washed it out with #9 to be safe . After reading on CLR KG -1 would have been a better choice to flush out being water based .
 
This Chanlynn SS 30-06 Match barrel was taken off my Mod. 70 target rifle @ 7500 rounds, cut from 26” to 25”, threaded and rechambered for 1903 Springfield. Current estimated round count between 8000 to 9000 rounds and still shoots well.

Left picture after cleaning w/Benchrest to obtain white patch, CLP patched and stored over 8 years. Center frame after 10 strokes Tactical Advantage/Iosso brush and soaking overnight; right frame after 10 strokes JB/Iosso.

THROAT

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1"
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Muzzle
upload_2018-7-18_21-57-23.jpeg upload_2018-7-18_21-58-16.jpeg upload_2018-7-18_21-59-37.jpeg


Bore scope proved that “white patch” is no guarantee that no copper or powder residue remains, even in a really slick barrel. Barrel had traces of copper just behind the crown and some carbon from throat for several inches. The TA took care of all copper, but left what appeared to be faint traces of carbon in throat area, which the JB removed.

Regards,
hps
 
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