Colt Super 38 Automatic

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BigBlue 94

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So I've got this old Colt Super 38 Auto 1911 that has some interesting features.

First off, it's a 1960 model. The grips were added by my grandpa about 15-20years ago. The rest is unknown to me. It has a buttstock that fits onto the mainspring housing when the factory grips are on it. It also has a full length bo-mar extended sight setup on it. Sadly the magazine is a 5 shot capacity with 38 spec marked on it, though it is a colt mag.

Did the buttstock come with many of the guns?
EDIT: stock is not attached, and cannot be without swapping grips. Legality is being determined.

Was this set up for some sort of competition shooting with the bo-mar sight?





 
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That's great! I bet it is deadly accurate with that long sight rail.

I wonder if it will accept modern .38super mags. Worth a try for more capacity.
 
I've got to imagine it will. I bet someone accidentally swapped mags, or lost the one and this one fit.

One super I saw a pic of with the buttstock had an extra long magazine (20-25 rds) and a small little foregrip ahead of the trigger guard. It looked so cool!
 
BigBlue 94

You might want to check with someone knowledgeable about these things on the NFA Firearms and Accessories forum but I think that detachable stock is a big no-no (unless of course you have a 16" barrel or proper registration with the BATFE).
 
BigBlue 94

As for your 1911 it looks like something Jim Clark would have converted from a .38 Super to .38 Special for the NRA Bullseye matches.

I remember the stock used to be sold with a 16" barrel and an extended magazine. This is a version that I found on Armslist that was marketed by Iver Johnson as a 1911 Carbine.

kHsijxs.jpg
 
BigBlue 94

The target grips on your gun look like something made by Karl Nill grips.
 
The barrel still says and shoots 38 super.

I see colt made a full auto with the features I mentioned above.

My stock has no markings that i can see

As for the grips, there's a 3 letter design on them, and it might start with a K. I know they were pricey, and he waited a good while for them
 
BigBlue 94

The grips are probably Nill grips as they use a script KN for their trademark.
 
Ya know, I think it is a KN stylized script carved into a solid bar on the checkering. The grips are very nicely crafted. Each screws to the factory holes, and then there's a fifth machine screw that holds the bottom of the grips together.
 
Wow! The magazine suggests that this is perhaps not a 38 super gun but, instead, a gun set up for 38 special wadcutters as a dedicated bullseye gun.

Also, I'd probably sell that stock to a collector of such things. You don't want to be accused of constructive possession of an SBR. May want to re-take the prior photo making the gap/non-attachment of the stock very apparent in the event that some zealous ATF agent happens to bump into this thread. (I can see that it is not actually attached, just touching the mainspring housing... but who knows if someone else might get confused).
 
Barrel and slide both say 38 super automatic. Other than the magazine, do you have any other info to what you are referencing?

I'm not real worried about the stock picture, as ive made it clear that as long as it's not original equipment (doesn't match the design I've seen on the colt produced automatic) that I'll either get the stamp for sbr or remove the mainspring housing that it attaches to.

At this point I'm gathering info about the firearm and being transparent about my intentions of legality. I have zero intentions of not following through on what needs to be done to make this 100% legal.

Btw, in KS, if I had made this myself it'd be legal IF I marked made in KS on it and never remove it from the state, its legal. It must be MANUFACTURED entirely in Kansas too, not just cutting the barrel off either. They cant be sold or gifted though. Sbr's, silencers, automatics.. it doesn't matter to the state govt. Federal on the other hand, can and will trump state law if they feel the need to.
 
Back when bullseye was the dominant pistol game, there were some 1911's built, and more converted after manufacture, to use 38 special wadcutter rounds in the "centerfire" course/stage/whatever-the-segments-of-a-2700-are-called (I'm not a BE shooter). The Army Marksmanship Unit went one step further and even created a 38 AMU cartridge that was a rimless 38 special cartridge.

If you google "38 special 1911," you can get way down a rabbit hole. But here are some articles discussing them. http://www.gunsandtech.com/on-targe...-wadcutter-21st-century-egw-vortex-brownells/

http://revivaler.com/colt-m1911-gold-cup-national-match-38-special/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/06/13/38-special-colt-1911/

You either have a mismatched/wrong magazine for that gun, or you have a gun that has been converted to 38 special use. My understanding is that, rare as the latter may be, it's also not very likely that someone put a bullseye-oriented sight rib on a 38 super 1911, as those were generally regarded as not being very accurate (headspacing on rim instead of case mouth, etc.). The sight and grips certainly suggest someone was using/building this thing for bullseye games.

Have you tried chambering a round? Have you tried plunking a new/resized 38 special case into the barrel?
 
I have shot 38 super out of it with no issues. No buldged or split cases. I have not chambered a 38spc as last night was the first time I noticed the mag said 38 spec.

The grips were an after-thought. My grandpa bought them because they were pretty, I'm sure, not firing, as at that time in his life, he wasnt pulling many triggers. Honestly, I don't think he even shot it after getting the grips. If he did, it was only once.
 
Hmm upon looking at those wadcutter 38s, I have some of those with the non-protruding projectiles... I do have a 38spec revolver though. I have lots of his old ammo.

On a side note, I work at a paint store. An old man came in one day with an 1855 Springfield pistol. He had a buttstock for it too, that had new walnut wood put into the fittings. I matched the stain, applied it, antiqued it with various dings and dents, and finished it with tung oil varnish. My picture next to the finished firearm is in his book of people who helped him revive the old pistol.

The pics are on an old phone somewhere, but here's what I'm talking about

8787140_1.jpg
 
So it appears I have an NFA firearm. A pistol made in 1960 with a buttstock is obviously either an NFA or illegal weapon. My course of action is as follows.

-Scour my paperwork at home tonight and see what I can find on the gun.
-Call the KC ATF office tomorrow with all my documentation (still registered to either my grandpa or grandma) and ask them what to do and if it was already registered as an NFA firearm.
-Most likely apply for a sbr stamp.

I have no idea what any of this is going to entail.

Does one stamp cover multiple firearms, meaning I could buy an 8" barrel for my AR? Is it just an SBR tax stamp or are suppressors included? Sorry, I've never really researched any of this.

Just to reaffirm, I'm trying to be as transparent in my proceedings as possible. I have no intent of breaking the law by continuing to keep this pistol without investigating and making it legal, whether that means replacing the mainspring housing, or getting it registered. I don't care to destroy mainspring housing as it could be an original colt piece.

This is going to require some thought.
 
BigBlue 94

I think the slotted mainspring housing was part of the kit that allowed you to attach the buttstock to your 1911.
 
The mainspring housing isn't the NFA part, the buttstock is.
I agree with #24, it looks like the "carbine kit" without the 16" barrel.
There are untold thousands of Lugers, Brownings, and Mausers cut for stocks. Nothing NFA about them if the stock is not there .
But the slotted mainspring housing is not the original Colt part. You can swap it for standard without affecting originality, that is long gone anyhow.

I would get the buttstock out of the house until I could find the tax stamp or get a favorable evaluation from the Feds.
You must get a SBR stamp BEFORE making the alteration. Maybe they will let you have one on the basis that the SBR isn't "manufactured" until the stock is attached. Maybe not.

I would try a .38 Special Wadcutter in the chamber. If it accepts it, the gun was converted to Special without being remarked. If so, I would not continue to shoot Supers in it.
If not, if it is still actually .38 Super, the .38 Special magazine is worth as much as three or four Super clips.
 
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