commercial 30-06 in a Garand

[pwrtool45]

You know, now that I think about it, the Garand doesn't say ".30'06" on the side, does it? It says ".30" or something along those lines IIRC

Marked as "US .30 M1" so I guess you could say it's chambered for the "US .30" cartridge, which happens to be externally identical to the .30-06.

In your position I'd also be a little irritated that the Garand couldn't handle some of the .30-06 loads that you find useful (i.e. 220gr bear loads). That said, to those in the continental US, loads using IMR4895 pushing a 150gr bullet to around 2700fps are perfectly adequate for most uses. I guess you can say it is what it is and it does what it does. It makes the pingy sound and shoots nazis. Not many nazis around here, but I do like the pingy sound.

Then again, there's always this and this.

 

[Swampy]

You know, now that I think about it, the Garand doesn't say ".30'06" on the side, does it? It says ".30" or something along those lines IIRC

On the heel of the receiver:

"US Rifle"
"Cal. .30 M1"
"Springfield Armory" (Or other contractor)
"XXXXXXX" (Serial Number"

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[mindwip]

Then again, there's always this and this.

Talk about power wow. I want.

 

[mindwip]

which happens to be externally identical to the .30-06.

We all know its whats on the inside that counts, not whats on the outside.
And of course never judge a book by its cover.

Since we are using cars to explain ammo i thought i would throw the book at it too. Ok i had my fun playing on words for the day. Even thou i said it in a fun way, i mean it. The M2 ball does just happen to be a 30-06, but the M2 ball was taken by the commercial market and changed it expanded its uses. Also as time past they found slower primers and used them. So while yes the number is the same "30-06" really it is quite a different animal from the M2 ball to the "new" 30-06. There both dogs, ones a German sheperd and ones a Doberman, both the same size, both bark, both are smart but they are different. Both go to different type of owners. And if the same owners wants both dogs he buys a book/adjustable gas plug to handle it.

 

[TGeorge]

Safe Ammo

There seems to be some differences of opinion here about the safety of modern ammo in a Garand.

Is it safe to use Winchester .30-06 150 gr bullets or PMC .30-06 150 grain bullets in a Garand? The general consensus seems to be not to use modern .30-06 cartriges in a Garand, but rather military ball rounds only.

How about using the above in a M1917 Eddystone? Is this bolt action able to handle this kind of ammo better?

 

[Swampy]

There seems to be some differences of opinion here about the safety of modern ammo in a Garand.

TGeorge,

There is NO, rpt, NO commercial ammo that can be deemed safe for the M1's gas system unless the manufacturer will state (In writing) that the powder meets the M1's burn rate criteria (US military M2 spec).

When queried, most will refuse to commit, or come right out and state that the ammo is not safe for the M1 gas system.

The very simple reason for this is that most commercial ammo loadings are made with widely varying burn rate lots of bulk commercial powder. The powder charge is varied to match the advertised muzzle velocity of the round currently coming off the machines. Even the maker knows that the powder they are using to make 30-06 hunting loads today may be perfectly fine in the M1. The lot of powder they use next week may not.... There is no way that their legal weenies will let them say that their ammo may be OK this week for a particular rifle but not OK next week. The liability potential is huge.

The only exceptions that I'm aware of are some of the high dollar Match ammo types out there. Black Hills for one, Federal Gold Medal too, I think are OK for the M1.... but don't take my word for it. Check with Black Hills and Federal.

All other commercial ammo types can be formulated with whatever bulk commercial powder the maker has available. Remember, the vast majority of the buyers of off the shelf hunting ammo out there are shooting turnbolt rifles, where powder burn rate is not an issue as long as peak chamber pressure does not go over SAAMI spec.

If you'll check one of my earlier posts I think I give the two "M1 gas system safe" load rules that the techies of Springfield Armory (the REAL one) gave to the NRA way back in the 50's when the M1 rifle was first being made available for civilian competition shooters. Prior to that ammo concerns was never an issue cuz' the only people allowed to shoot the M1 were guys and gals wearing GI green and they shot ONLY the ammo they were issued by other people wearing the same green, only with more brass or stripes.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Bwana John]

While I totally understand the pressure curve requirement for M1 Garands, in my younger and dummer days I reloaded everything from lead un-gaschecked bullets, 110 gr carbine bullets, to 220 grainers, and powders as fast as 2400 and as slow as 4350, always with commerical brass that was many times reloaded.

This is on top of a rifle with REALLY big headspace.

The rifle ALWAYS worked perfectly with any reload.

So, is commerical ammo "unsafe", or just "hard" on the action?

 

[Swampy]

So, is commerical ammo "unsafe", or just "hard" on the action?

It can be either or both.... depending on HOW FAR above design spec the pressure curve of what is currently about to be fired and HOW MANY you have fired previously.

Most commercial ammo is not going to be a real safety hazard, but will be stressing the gas system parts with each shot fired. Remember, metal fatigue is a CUMULATIVE process. Once damage reaches a point that you become aware of it, it's too late. Time to replace parts..... and M1 op-rods are not cheap and getting more expensive all the time. Care to guess why???

OTOH.... if you have an op-rod that is already stressed near it's limit from previous firings of over the line rounds, then fire a round that is considerably over the design limit.... the op-rod can suffer a catasrophic breakage instead of just showing stress fractures and getting replaced.

In this instance, which has happened, reports online (with impressive photos) some years back from guys who un-knowingly chambered and fired the so-called "lite magnum" 30-06 loads, the op-rod snaps and comes out the side of the buttstock, trashing it in the process. Metal pieces and wood splinters go flying. Fortunately, nothing big enough to cause severe injury, but skin was lost and some blood too.

The POTENTIAL for severe injury was definitely there. What if one of those wood or metal pieces had come back into the shooters or some bystanders face. Losing several teeth, an eye(s), or even penetration of the brain is entirely possible.

Why risk it??? Shoot ammo in a rifle that it's DESIGNED to use and call it a day at that point.

Just my 2 bits.

Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Ranger 40]

I think people read more than they shoot these days. I have an Old Garand thats been fed any thing that would chamber in it. It has been riding behind the gear sticks in Dodge 4X4s for many moons. It gets cleaned once a year maybe. It has never lost the Op rod, or exploded from firing Winchester 180s. I know of many of these old guns that ride around filled with dirt and what ever ammo is cheap. I have never seen one explode and wipe out a rifle range. What I hear is a bunch of guys that work 9 to 5 live in town and read about shooting. Gun writers are like news reporters if it bleeds it leads.

 

[mustanger98]

Well, all I can say is my Garand gets fed GI M2 ball and my handloads. I won't risk ruining my rifle regardless of what damage won't get done to bystanders.

My handloads...

147gr BT-FMJ or 150gr SP over IMR4895 running up to 2800fps.

165gr SP over IMR4064 running about 2400fps.

No KB yet, but those loads, IIRC, are somewhere whithin the criteria for the M1 gas system. Why should I shoot the super hot overpriced commercial or whatever's cheap, taking chances on burn rates, when I can shoot a good handload?

 

[Samuraigg]

I just got a Garand and certainly don't have any problems with using M2 surplus ammunition.

But what happens when the surplus runs out?

And Garands are extremely popular right? Why are there no commercial manufactures that put out M2 spec ammunition for the Garand. Seems to me like the market is there.

Or maybe they're waiting for the surplus to run out.

 

[mustanger98]

Samuraigg, My understanding is that Remington-UMC produced a 150gr FMJ that was rated for the Garand (used to be we called it "yellow box" because it was). The first 20rds I put through my Garand were this load. They've since changed the packaging so now they have a white/lt.green box marked for this load or something similar, but I haven't checked with them to see if it's the same stuff.