Compact Hunting Sidelock

[rodwha]

I'm interested in something that can be easily carried all weekend long. I think I want a .50 cal since there is a little bit more commercially available to fire out of it. I would want to fire sabots, but conicals will work as well. I am a little interested in RB, but the ballistics are just lacking.

I would like to be able to 0 at 100 yds and max at 125 yds. That should easily keep the bullet/conical within 4" of 0. I intend on a max of 6" groups with a hunting load.

I have found the Traditions Deerhunter, Lyman's Deerstalker, and Pedersoli Country Hunter rifles. I've also been eyeing Hawkens type rifles. I'm not into Cadillacs, but certainly don't want a Suzuki either. I feel you ought to get good quality from $600.

I've heard quality is hit or miss with Traditions. So I'm uncertain of them. The gap between the barrel and rod looks odd to me.

Pedersoli (Dixie Gun Works) claims it's max load is a mere 50 grns. I was hopeful because it has a 1:34" twist, which ought to handle sabots well. Anyone know if I was given a max of 50 grns as a gross margin of safety? 50 grns seems quite anemic.

I like everything about the Lyman's except the 1:48" twist. I think the stainless version would go well with my stainless ROA.

Any of you familiar with these?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Pretty much any production cap lock gun will do off like a custom cap lock. Some could use a little tweaking, but by and large they are almost equal. (but not quite)

Flinters are an entirely different story.

There were some especially crap side locks on the market 30 yrs ago. Even the Spanish production guns of the past 20 years have been much better.

You want something cap lock, and inexpensive in 50 cal, get a CVA Bobcat. They sell in fairly good shape on the on-line auctions for about $120. The barrels were very good round ball barrels.

The next step up is the CVA frontier rifle, the one with double set triggers. A tack driver for most folks.

The quality of production flintlocks is hit and miss.

 

[rodwha]

No flinter for me. I'd want a caplock.
I'm continually drawn to Lyman's Deerstalker. It calls to me in my sleep even. Great dreams I've had!
But I'd like to be able to use sabots.
Can't have it all I guess...

 

[arcticap]

Pedersoli (Dixie Gun Works) claims it's max load is a mere 50 grns. I was hopeful because it has a 1:34" twist, which ought to handle sabots well. Anyone know if I was given a max of 50 grns as a gross margin of safety? 50 grns seems quite anemic.

The "all inclusive" Pedersoli manual lists the following data in charts that are labeled as suggested black powder loads (page 14a):

Country Hunter .50 Percussion

Powder Charge - 45 grains
Maximum Powder Charge - 100 grains
.490 Ball & .010 patch

Country Hunter .50 Flintlock

Powder Charge - 50 grains
Maximum Powder Charge - 100 grains
.490 Ball & .010 patch

 

[rodwha]

Are the Country Hunters designed for RB with that 1:34" twist? I assumed that it was meant for sabots.

I really like everything about the Deerstallker except the 1:48" twist, though the Country Hunter is more traditional. I'm kinda torn...

Is a Pedersoli a better rifle than a Lyman's?

 

[rodwha]

Thanks arcticap! I looked on their site, but couldn't find info about charges.

I find it odd that they show the charge and then mention the RB. Will it work well in that fast of a twist?

 

[arcticap]

You never know.
The TC Scout had a 1 in 38" twist which some said that it delivered acceptable round ball accuracy. That rifle looks similar to a Winchester 94 without the lever.
IMO the Pedersoli is a light weight rifle with a more slender barrel which some would really enjoy to carry & shoot in the mountains or woods, especially for the price.
But if someone prefers the rifles with the standard heavier weight barrels, then the Country Hunter is in a different class, a class almost all of it's own.
The closest gun to it is a Traditions Tenessee carbine which has a short barrel but at the other extreme with a 1 in 66" twist.
So there you have it, either a fast or a slow twist in a compact or light weight rifle.
If you don't expect too much from the Country Hunter then you may be surprised with what it can do well.
But shooting round balls at long range probably isn't going to be it's strong point.

 

[rodwha]

I'm actually liking the weight of 7.5 lbs with the Deerstalker better than the Country Hunter's 5.7 lbs.

Having had problems with the 12 ga auto and picking up a pump to use for the other half of the afternoon left me noticing the difference (using 2 3/4" 7/8 oz typical dove loads).

It wouldn't be much of a concern while hunting as there wouldn't be more than a few shots in the weekend, it may not be so much fun playing with at the range, and I love range days!

7.5 lbs isn't a whole lot anyway.

 

[loose noose]

I've got the TC Scout and it shoots conicals very well after getting the powder charge co-ordinated to what it likes, also the round ball shoots fairly well out to about 50 yards maybe a max of 75 yards after that it put 'em all over the place. From the bench it would put 3 (conical), rounds in a 2" group, lots of times 2 rounds would be touching at 100 yards. As far as I shot the rifle was at 150 yards and the groups opened to slightly over 4". It is a nice looking firearm though.

 

[arcticap]

That's impressive accuracy from a 1 in 38" twist.

 

[rodwha]

I would love to have a shooter like that!
I'm curious about your load(s). Care to share?

 

[Will5A1]

If you are willing to consider used look at the T/C White Mountain Carbine, it is a very compact muzzleloader, mine shot conicals very well, and RB allright.

 

[rodwha]

Look very nice!
Couldn't seem to find much info. Could have a 20 or 38" twist. And the max load could be 150 grns over a maxi (a lot???).
Do you know the weight?
I'd prefer new, but wouldn't discount a well kept used rifle.

 

[Patocazador]

I've got a "Suzuki" gun that I love. (I HATE Suzuki cars.) I've killed numerous deer with it and it is light and reliable and I bought it years ago for much less than $200.. It's an Italian-made Hawken percussion copy in .50 cal. that was imported by Sile. It has no name stamped on it.

It does shoot maxi-balls better than sabots. It has about a 1 in 33" twist.

If you can find one, I think you'll love it.

 

[Will5A1]

As I recall the WMC had a weight of 6lbs (or less), mine was ideal for carrying up and down hills while deer hunting, it shot the T/C maxi and Horandy GP conicals well with 100grs of FFg, but as you would expect the recoil was significant. I traded mine to a buddy who still has it, and would get another one if I walked as much while hunting as I use to. It used to be a popular gun with guys hunting from treestands also, its short lenght made it an easy rifle to get around tight spots with.

 

[hang fire]

Don’t sell the RB short, with right caliber and load, it is a killer

In 1977, our youngest daughter had just turned 14 when she used her little .54 cap lock to take her first deer. It was a little over 100 yards and the RB KIRT.

 

[goon]

Shop used. My brother picked up a Lyman Deerstalker flintlock for around $275 last year. I don't want to buy another flinter until I can afford to have a Chamber's kit built, but the Lyman goes off reliably. I can't imagine a problem with a used caplock version. My dad has an older CVA Bobcat that also works reliably. They both prefer them to heavier guns for hunting.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Used T/C Grey Hawk, New Englander, or White Mountain carbine.

 

[ontarget]

What do you consider "compact"? I guess one of the hawken style rifles can be called compact in comparison to a Kentucky rifle or something along those lines.

 

[rodwha]

patocazador: I'm just a little concerned about Traditions and CVS products as I've read many people's problems with them, and many others who love theirs (my father has a CVS). I just don't like the idea of gambling as I'm not that great at it.
I did that with a Taurus and got dealt a poor hand.

hang fire: Cool picture!
I am a bit interested in shooting RB, but for bigger game (deer on up) I'd prefer the use of something that defies the wind better as I can more easily judge distance than hold over for winds that may be shifting or gusting. Less to have to figure or guesstimate. But for shots within 50 yds I wouldn't be concerned.

Will5A1: 6 lbs or less seems a little light for something that can have a good kick. The Deerstalker keeps calling my name and appearing in my dreams (and what great dreams those have been! ). At 7.5 lbs it seems like the it ought to be light enough. The only thing I would change would be the twist of the riflings.

ontarget: Compact to me would be ~40" OAL or less. I have also considered Hawkens style rifles as they aren't too far off and would give a little better ballistics with 4 more inches of barrel, but there's just something about that Deerstalker.

 

[alsask]

I have a Deerstalker in .54. It is very accurate with patched roundball but unfortunately it is not nearly as good with conicals. The groove diameter is fairly deep for shooting conicals. An overpowder card helped the conicals a bit but I still found the roundball best.

 

[rodwha]

What kind of groups do you generally get with RB vs conical?
How is the recoil with the .54?
How do you like the fiber optic sights (assuming you have a model with them)?
Trigger?

 

[alsask]

85 yards with RB I will get around 5" groups [5 shot] at least, generaly much better. One 5 shot group was 3 in a clover leaf and 2 above opening it to around 4" . The conicals were around 4" at 35 yards and I never bothered beyond that.

Recoil is fine off the bench [90 grains 2f] and off hand you don't even notice it. The conicals had noticably more kick off the bench but I was using 100 grains of 2f.

I removed the fiber optic sights and put on a Lyman tang sight and Lyman globe on the front. I might put the Lymand fiber optic back on the front as the globe is a bit dark in the woods.

The trigger is factory Lyman but I honed the sear and it is very nice now. Lyman cut agate flints work best for me and I found 4f more consistant in the pan.

I should mention that Lyman bores are a bit rough initialy and I lapped the bore last year but have not bothered to try a five shot group since. I just shoot a couple of shots to check point of impact before going hunting.

 

[rodwha]

I'm surprised with the grouping as it is with conicals at such a short range. I don't blame you for stopping at that point!

I'm determined to find a conical or even a saboted bullet that will give me 4" groups out at 100 yds. Hopefully there are enough options at .50 cal that I'll find something!

How was the trigger initially? Obviously in need of a fine tuning...