Concealed Carry as Protection Against Wildlife?

[Solomonson]

I'm a fairly serious hiker living in a state/county where it's extremely difficult to get a concealed carry permit.

I have now seen five large mountain lions up close and personal and it's beginning to scare me. Mountain lions around these parts are FAR more aggressive than they used to me. To be honest I'm thinking about carrying a loaded firearm inside of my pack without a license.

There's no chance that my pack will ever be "inspected" on the trail so I'm not worried about that. If I actually had to pull a firearm from the pack (in two of the five cases I would have) and then possibly shoot a lion, I wouldn't have had any problem with owning up to my non-permitted action.

One of them scared the tar out of me. I was within twenty feet of a big lion when it slithered away. In each case I would have had ample time to drop my pack and pull a pistol from it, so I'm not even considering wearing a holster (although I would sew one in place inside of my daypack.)

What would you all do in my case? Serious answers only, please. Thanks.

 

[illinoisburt]

I do not advocate illegal carry. In your situation you would likely be better served with some bear spray. Mountain lions are stealth hunters. If one wanted to make a meal of you, it is extremely unlikely you would see it beforehand and have an opportunity to open a pack to retrieve a firearm. There is also the possibility you may misread its intent and end up in serious trouble after shooting one you saw along a trail. Just my two cents.

 

[Solomonson]

I do not advocate illegal carry. In your situation you would likely be better served with some bear spray. Mountain lions are stealth hunters. If one wanted to make a meal of you, it is extremely unlikely you would see it beforehand and have an opportunity to open a pack to retrieve a firearm. There is also the possibility you may misread its intent and end up in serious trouble after shooting one you saw along a trail. Just my two cents.

Bear spray is indeed an option. That's something I'll look into. While lions used to be extremely stealthy around here, that's not the case anymore. It's extremely unnerving.

 

[.308 Norma]

We've grown old, but at one time both my wife and I were "serious" hikers/backpackers, so I have a question - why do you want to carry concealed Solomonson? You said you live in a state/county where "it's extremely difficult to get a concealed carry permit." Is open carry illegal there too?
I'm not trying to start yet another open carry versus concealed carry internet gun forum argument here, but I really think if a person is worried about an animal attack while hiking, they should be carrying openly. That's the way I used to do it - my handgun was strapped to the side of my backpack, but still within reach. My big canister of pepper spray was right in front of my right kidney, on the backpack's belt.
Please excuse me if I'm talking apples and you're talking oranges though. Maybe you're talking "serious" hiking in a semi-urban area, while I'm talking "serious" backpacking in the wilderness. Is that it? If it is, as much as I disagree with the law, I can't recommend that you illegally carry a concealed weapon in your backpack. But if that's not it, I recommend open carry (if it's legal) when you're on the trail.
Edited to say - And carry pepper spray too.

 

[WC145]

Personally, I'd look into whether or not open carry is legal where you live. I always wear a gun on my belt when I work around my farm, go out in the woods, etc., because of the predator threat.

 

[hdwhit]

Mountain lions, bobcats, ocelots and even stray house cats know that they aren't covered by the Affordable Care Act and so unless starving, protecting young or cornered, they will retreat rather than fight. You are at greatest danger when you are sleeping and a mountain lion that decided you were prey would have your throat in its mouth before you could wake up, get to your backpack, open it and retrieve a gun. They are scary in person, but they really don't want to mess with you if there is an alternative.

Repellant sprays, mace, pepper spray and the like are all good choices.

 

[hdwhit]

Do you have the option of carrying a rifle openly?

 

[Solomonson]

We've grown old, but at one time both my wife and I were "serious" hikers/backpackers, so I have a question - why do you want to carry concealed Solomonson? You said you live in a state/county where "it's extremely difficult to get a concealed carry permit." Is open carry illegal there too?
I'm not trying to start yet another open carry versus concealed carry internet gun forum argument here, but I really think if a person is worried about an animal attack while hiking, they should be carrying openly. That's the way I used to do it - my handgun was strapped to the side of my backpack, but still within reach. My big canister of pepper spray was right in front of my right kidney, on the backpack's belt.
Please excuse me if I'm talking apples and you're talking oranges though. Maybe you're talking "serious" hiking in a semi-urban area, while I'm talking "serious" backpacking in the wilderness. Is that it? If it is, as much as I disagree with the law, I can't recommend that you illegally carry a concealed weapon in your backpack. But if that's not it, I recommend open carry (if it's legal) when you're on the trail.
Edited to say - And carry pepper spray too.

Yes it is.

 

[Solomonson]

Mountain lions, bobcats, ocelots and even stray house cats know that they aren't covered by the Affordable Care Act and so unless starving, protecting young or cornered, they will retreat rather than fight. You are at greatest danger when you are sleeping and a mountain lion that decided you were prey would have your throat in its mouth before you could wake up, get to your backpack, open it and retrieve a gun. They are scary in person, but they really don't want to mess with you if there is an alternative.

Repellant sprays, mace, pepper spray and the like are all good choices.

Indeed.

 

[Solomonson]

Do you have the option of carrying a rifle openly?

No.

 

[WC145]

Yes it is.

Never mind, I misread the quoted post.

 

[Speedo66]

If the place you live has a problem with issuing permits, very likely they have severe penalties for illegal possession. I have been in enough jails on the right side of the bars where I can tell you you don't ever want to be on the wrong side. Even one night in a worst case scenario can mean serious injury or death, not to mention the economic hardship and emotional toll on you and your family.

Either find a way to obtain a permit, there are often attorneys who specialize in this, or find another way to defend yourself.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Just for future reference posing a question on whether you should do something illegal is not very High Road and will likely get this thread closed.

If you had started out by asking what alternatives other than carrying a firearm would be appropriate then it wouldn't have been an issue.


I will not advocate carrying illegally and agree with the suggestions of bear spray. I would also suggest a knife if that's legal, although that would certainly be a last ditch effort and likely unrealistic.

 

[.308 Norma]

Repellant sprays, mace, pepper spray and the like are all good choices.

And a big honkin' hiking staff.

 

[cpileri]

how abt this to buy a few seconds of grab-your-spray-time

http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/p-47093-kaspar-steel-gorget.aspx


[Q
UOTE="hdwhit, post: 10624284, member: 235390"]Mountain lions, bobcats, ocelots and even stray house cats know that they aren't covered by the Affordable Care Act and so unless starving, protecting young or cornered, they will retreat rather than fight. You are at greatest danger when you are sleeping and a mountain lion that decided you were prey would have your throat in its mouth before you could wake up, get to your backpack, open it and retrieve a gun. They are scary in person, but they really don't want to mess with you if there is an alternative.


Repellant sprays, mace, pepper spray and the like are all good choices.[/QUOTE]

 

[Wisco]

Why the secrecy on the state of residence? It would be immensely helpful to just about everyone giving advice.

(Edit: I was literally unaware until I just looked that multiple states disallow the open carry of both handguns and long guns. Shameful.)

 

[9MMare]

Mountain lions, bobcats, ocelots and even stray house cats know that they aren't covered by the Affordable Care Act and so unless starving, protecting young or cornered, they will retreat rather than fight. You are at greatest danger when you are sleeping and a mountain lion that decided you were prey would have your throat in its mouth before you could wake up, get to your backpack, open it and retrieve a gun. They are scary in person, but they really don't want to mess with you if there is an alternative.

Repellant sprays, mace, pepper spray and the like are all good choices.

Actually, joggers and cyclists are also very big targets....they are acting like prey.

Hike with a dog or a group.

I have had the privilege of encountering a mountain lion on the trail. He was sitting on a log on the side of the trail, 30 feet away. The only thing that moved was the tip of his tail. We share the wildlands.

 

[Solomonson]

Actually, joggers and cyclists are also very big targets....they are acting like prey.

Hike with a dog or a group.

I have had the privilege of encountering a mountain lion on the trail. He was sitting on a log on the side of the trail, 30 feet away. The only thing that moved was the tip of his tail. We share the wildlands.

A dog or two really isn't a bad idea, but they need to be on leashes around here which would make things difficult as the hikes can be fairly technical at times -- including some scrambling/climbing.

I've seen "only the tail moving" more than once. Back in the old days, lions avoided humans. Now they are definitely emboldened -- at least around here, plus the issue of needing to find food.

 

[Solomonson]

And a big honkin' hiking staff.

I already use trekking poles for the sort of hiking I do. They would be of little use against a lion though.

 

[Solomonson]

What state and county?
I want to see if i know the policy for open carry.
If you are in cali...and live in san diego where ccw's dont exist then i would
A. get a address in san bernardino and apply, or,
B. just carry it and take the misdemeanor
c. use a none firearm as a method for defense.

I think I am going to go with bear spray for now. Depending on my experiences in the next couple of months I'll make a choice whether or not to leave my Glock 20 at home or not.

 

[Solomonson]

Get a hunting license and carry a small light shotgun with buckshot. The worse
thing you can get banged with would be hunting out of season. In most states
there is an open season for something going on at almost all times.

Zeke

If I hiked with a slung shotgun, the first person I passed would call the sheriff...

 

[9MMare]

That's the first time I've ever read that an attacking cat is slow enough from 20'-30' to allow even well-trained people to get a gun from a pack, and aim it.

Agreed. If actually stalking for food, you may not even see it.

The recommendation for people hiking is to face the cat, and try to look at big as possible...raising and spreading arms. Make noise but not screaming. If the cat doesnt leave, back away slowly. You want to look like you are more trouble than it's worth to eat.

The hiking pole is a pretty good idea....that you might get up in time...brace it on your hip maybe, tilted up? You'll go down but it might do enough damage to make it run off. Or jab and move to the side? Hmmm. If it does charge, better than nothing.

 

[ontarget]

Don't break the law brother. There are some alternative suggestions already posted. A firearm conviction will effect your 2A rights for the rest of your life.

 

[.308 Norma]

I already use trekking poles for the sort of hiking I do. They would be of little use against a lion though.

Naw Solomonson, I'm not talking about trekking poles. Trekking poles save a lot of wear and tear on your knees when you're carrying a heavy backpack. And they're great for a little additional stability, especially off-trail. But when I said a "big honkin' hiking staff," I was talking about one like I carry on my exercise hikes from the house. It's hardwood, a little over 5' long, and it's about an inch and a quarter in diameter. I fashioned it out of the handle of some kind of digging or tamping tool. It's heavy enough that not only do I use it as a walking staff, I have to switch hands with it once in a while because my arm gets tired.
I carry it for protection from the large, overly territorial farm dogs around here. I've never had to whack one of them with it yet, all I've had to do is show it to them after they've ran a hundred yards down someone's driveway to tell me I was "trespassing" on "their" section of a public road. When they see that big stick, they always just stop and stand there growling as I walk on by.
We have plenty of mountain lions around here too. But they're not like the ones where you live. The mountain lions around here have not lost their fear of humans. That probably has something to do with the fact that the farmers and ranchers around here don't like them very much. Imagine that?!
At any rate, Ignition Override wrote about an attacking mountain lion being discouraged by someone punching it in its face with their fist. Therefore, I figure I might be able to discourage one by jabbing and whacking it with my big ol' hiking staff. That said, I'd try bear spray first.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The OP has told us that he can't legally carry a handgun or long gun openly or concealed. Some posts which have suggested in some way that the OP should carry a gun have been deleted. We don't suggest or condone illegal acts on the THR.

For the OP carrying a gun is off the table.