Concealed Carry - Train with an Attorney - Cerberus Training Group

[Wichaka]

Concealed Carry - with an Attorney attached.

You have realized the responsibility of concealed carry. You understand the importance of training and practicing making sure you can use a firearm effectively, yet you may have only given thought to surviving the combat portion of the encounter.

If so, don’t be unprepared for what follows.

If you’re looking for answers to armed confrontations, training involved and the legal aftermath, this is the class for you. Attorney Ted DeBray, who has been a prosecutor, private attorney and a current public defender, has experience in prosecuting as well as defending citizens in such cases, and will be on hand to take you through the legal process as he trains along with you.

Although his expertise is for Washington State, he'll be able to go over some Oregon court procedures and pattern jury instructions for such incidents.

This one-day class involves looking at the legal aspect of training, the content of the training, and the legal aftermath that follows. He will be available throughout the class to answer your questions about armed confrontations, the law, and your rights and responsibilities.

The firearm training portion will integrate with the legal aspect of armed encounters. We will be working with your firearm and related equipment with manipulations and drills that are logical and proven to be effective and useful on the street in close quarters confrontations as well as vehicle distances. You will understand how the brain works in such confrontations and take in the information and properly absorb it so that productive execution of the training is maintained.

Be sure to bring plenty of questions, paper for notes, and an open mind for a great learning experience.

Required Ammunition - 500 Rounds

Class starts at 0900 and runs for 8-10 hrs

One day class offered; May 18th 200.00

cerberus-training.com

 

[Balrog]

Remember an attorney's opinion is just an opinion. It's good to listen too. It doesn't mean a judge and jury will agree.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Having a qualified attorney participate in a concealed carry class is a great idea. I'd be grateful if after the class you'd let us all know how it went.

 

[Wichaka]

I've said for many years...for the cost of a case of ammo...sit down with an attorney that is versed in use of force issues and go over rights, responsibilities and scenarios and whatever else comes to mind to get some direction...and keep their contact info close if needed.

Better to have some direction than go it alone. What's that saying about lean not on your own understanding...

The attorney mentioned in the class description attended my AK platform class last year...with a SBR Krink no less.

Frank...I'll be taking notes and will give a full AAR.

 

[Spats McGee]

I, too, would love to hear how this training goes, as I think having an attorney on hand to discuss the legal side would be very helpful.

 

[Wichaka]

My sincere apologies for not responding back sooner with a AAR of the class, but it's been a great overwhelming year. Have had twice the amount of students compared to last year...for the 2nd year of doing this as a biz, it's been a great time.

Next year is already shaping up with classes from Bill Blowers of Tap-Rack Tactical presenting a 2 day pistol course, and Rob Haught from Symtac doing a 2 day shotgun class.

Brought on 2 new instructors to help handle some of the classes. Riley Howell, a Marine back from the sandbox contracting, and training with various military units around the world, brings a great perspective to my more 'tactical' courses.
Katon Bingham, as NRA certified instructor does an outstanding job with the first time firearms folks, along with getting them ready for various skill levels. Onto the class;

Attorney Ted DeBray, who has had courtroom experience with both defending and prosecuting shooting cases, was able to address students legal concerns in Washington, where he currently practices, along with Oregon and Idaho law, court procedures and pattern jury instructions for such incidents.

The class was full, with 6 students attending. I keep my classes small so no one feels like they are just going through the motions, or just another student...everyone gets individual attention, Ted was that way as well. He made sure everyone got what they needed as to the legal side of things before, during, and after a shooting incident.

He passed out information on the 3 states laws and courtroom procedures, as we had students from all three states...Oregon, Washington, and Idaho.

He also went over the book, Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right To Self Defense by Masaad Ayoob.

We went over concealed carry presentation, working on efficiency of the draw, movement and related pistol manipulations specific to the students particular platform. We went onto multiple threats, both near and separated distances, basics of positional shooting and use of cover.

Most importantly, we worked on how to work around people with a loaded pistol out of the holster. I feel this is extremely lacking in concealed carry live fire classes. The problem I see is range policy dictating such things. With the range on my property, and the way its built, we can shoot 270 degrees and use "guns up" position.

We started out unloaded with no ammo or magazines on anyone. We went over High/Low ready, SUL, gun up, and temple index positions and the use for each. It really hit home with all the students, as most are taught low ready only. When the thought of small children and strollers enter the equation it was a great thought provoking moment for in depth discussion. People need to be taught alternatives, and rapid adapting to the situation at hand. A good portion of the class was spent working on this, as no one had prior experience with any of the positions, other than low ready, and all wanted to work on them thoroughly.

The class was suppose to go for 8-9 hrs, but we went well into 10 hours with no one showing signs of letting up on both myself and Ted.

Overall it was a great learning experience with the students, but myself as well, as Ted was able to go over the drills we did, showing how the training can be defended.

Plans are to have it available next year, possibly 2 times if the interested is high enough.

Check here for class details; https://cerberus-training.com/collections/concealed-carry

 

[Kleanbore]

Remember an attorney's opinion is just an opinion.

An attorney's opinion is not what one would want to learn from such a course.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Remember an attorney's opinion is just an opinion. It's good to listen too. It doesn't mean a judge and jury will agree.

Mmmm...not quite accurate, though true at face value.

An attorney's opinion isn't "just an opinion"...it's a QUALIFIED opinion.

My opinion on vehicle troubleshooting and repairs is "just an opinion". Danny the mechanic's opinion who has made a living doing this for decades is a QUALIFIED opinion.

The difference is in the training and experience of the person. Which is why we hire an actual attorney if we have to go before a criminal court instead of relying on our friendly neighbor next door.

The words our laws are written in and how they're interpreted and applied may be in English...but it's a dialect of English that the common citizen is not trained in and which has nuances that may not be apparent or well understood.

An attorney's point of view in this type of training would be an eye-opener, I'm sure.

 

[Balrog]

Mmmm...not quite accurate, though true at face value.

An attorney's opinion isn't "just an opinion"...it's a QUALIFIED opinion.

My opinion on vehicle troubleshooting and repairs is "just an opinion". Danny the mechanic's opinion who has made a living doing this for decades is a QUALIFIED opinion.

The difference is in the training and experience of the person. Which is why we hire an actual attorney if we have to go before a criminal court instead of relying on our friendly neighbor next door.

The words our laws are written in and how they're interpreted and applied may be in English...but it's a dialect of English that the common citizen is not trained in and which has nuances that may not be apparent or well understood.

An attorney's point of view in this type of training would be an eye-opener, I'm sure.

I am going to have to disagree that an attorney's opinion is a qualified opinion. Unfortunately in my work, I have, fairly often, dealt with attorneys. Their opinions are just opinions. Some are more qualified than others. I have at times not taken the advice of attorneys, and have never regretted it. Sometimes they can give really bad advice.

 

[Kleanbore]

Unfortunately in my work, I have, fairly often, dealt with attorneys. Their opinions are just opinions.

If you are asking for legal advice, an attorney can give you advice. It may be based on opinion--on what the attorney believes a plaintiff may be willing to settle for, on what might be more convincing to a jury, and so on. Such assessments can prove to be wrong---or not. But they are a whole lot more valuable than what a lay person might offer.

In a Use of Force Law class, an attorney may provide some opinions. I would pay attention to them before I would listen to any lay person.

There are exceptions. I recommend his course.

But opinions are not what you are there to hear.

You are there to learn the applicable law, including the case law, and the jury instructions, along with the outcome of some court cases and what drove them.

For that, you do need a qualified attorney, or someone like Massad Ayoob, a recognized expert in Use of Force Law who is not an attorney. Trying to interpret a particular law in isolation by using lay dictionary definitions can lead to erroneous conclusions. And case law—decisions rendered by high courts in the interpretation of the laws—and relationships among other pertinent laws and constitutional principles can have as much to do with the real meaning of the law as the words in a single statute.

Realize that there are very few attorneys who have any real knowledge of self defense law.

 

[1911 guy]

The obvious point is that shooting someone is to be a last resort. Legal and moral implications are real.
The moral implications are for you to sort out in your own head using societal norms and personal values as a guide.
The legal implications determine how you spend the next several years of your life.
If the evidence is not slam dunk in your favor and it goes to trial, only a very few things matter.
The prosecuting lawyer wants convictions for his record.
Nobody cares how many acquittals a defense lawyer gets.
Judges want to be seen as "tough on crime".
If you are required to use force, you had better be able to convince 12 people that you had no other choice while two out of three lawers in the room don't care if you're guilty or innocent, as long as they get a conviction.
So do everything you can to stay out of courtrooms.
Now go talk to a detective about evidence gathering and what really happens at a crime scene. That is what matters in a courtroom.