Constitutional Carry is what Illinois secretly wants

[ilbob]

It is hard to tell what the end game is here. "Our" side may decide to accept a really bad bill and then have a victory party. If they do, we will spend the next 5 years in court trying to fight the more onerous parts as we have little hope of working it out in the legislature as has happened in other states.

Apparently there is a secret bill being pushed now that none of us can know anything about. That suggests a complete cave.

 

[tomrkba]

Hex, not all of us run away from our problems. Some decide to stay and fight.

Choosing your battles is important. I do not see Illinois gun owners demanding a good carry law. I see a few meek requests, but politicians only laugh at those. They laughed at us "hicks and bitter clingers" in New York, Colorado and in the national debate. If this is not obvious to you, watch Bloomberg's anti-rights advertisement. The gun owners of Illinois will not win gun rights if they continue in the same manner as years past.

The citizen gun owners of Illinois must make it clear that their politicians MUST pass some sort of reasonable carry law or face some sort of PERSONAL consequence (which should be determined by Illinois citizens). We are at the point in our history where corruption is so rampant that doing otherwise will only result in the same bad behavior on the part of politicians.


RE: End Game

The end game is that politicians will not willingly allow citizens to carry in THEIR state. Gun owners just happen to live on THEIR property. This mindset will continue until gun owners make them change it. The method is up to those living in Illinois. If you cannot see this obvious fact, then you will never win.

 

[egyas]

Trust me HexHead, I'd *LOVE* to Leave the Democratik People's Republik of Hellinois, but I can't. You see, I own property in North Central Illinois, and I CANNOT sell it. I've been in the house 10 years, and I'm now $20,000 underwater on my mortgage. I've done enough improvements that I SHOULD be have about $40,000 in equity (House SHOULD be worth about $150K-$155K, and I own $110K still), but the sad reality is MOST homeowners here in my city are underwater. My house (base on comparables) would sell for only about $90K) right now. So $20K underwa6ter. I cannot sell this albatross, so I'm STUCK here. Sadly, I DO NOT see the housing market in this abysmal nightmare of a state getting better any time soon. At least not in my city.

 

[RedBowTies88]

The people of IL, like CA, NY, NJ, MA et al, can stew in their own juices. Nobody built a Berlin Wall around your states to keep you there. If you left, denying them of the tax dollars they reap from you, only then might there be change. You're ultimately responsible for the mindset of the people that vote these idiots in.

Really?

You can "stew" in your own stupidity. This is supposed to be a free republic with the people's rights protected. Letting them strip of you of your rights and just keep moving hoping they'll always be a safe haven for the rights you're supposed to have guaranteed will definitely solve this problem.

 

[tomrkba]

We do not live in a free republic. I know we all want it to be otherwise, but the last nail in that coffin was pounded in with The Patriot Act. The courts are corrupt and are in the process of removing the words "and bear" from "the right to keep and bear arms".

Gun owners will never win their rights in those states unless gun owners demand their rights from politicians. Take action or resign yourself to the political fringe.

 

[RedBowTies88]

Gun owners in these states will never win their rights without a national outcry.


However seeing your attitude makes it even more clear to me that it will never happen. I hope the oppression and corruption in these states spreads to the rest of the country like the cancer that it is... perhaps then the rest of you will wake up.

 

[tomrkba]

OK RedBowTie... tell me exactly how you are going to get the Illinois legislature to recind the FOID and weapon limitations? Change will not happen until you and your ilk get off your butts and make some demands. Sending a letter is meaningless since they ignore it. Paying your NRA dues is insufficient. Why are there not 100,000 gun owners outside the state house demanding shall issue concealed carry?

My state is squared away and I show up armed at my state house to speak with my delegates. Why can't you?

 

[ljnowell]

And how's that woirking for ya? When you could be enjoying life in Free America.

You're never going to get a carry law that's worth a damn in IL.

Happened today. Shall issue with preemption. Haha, you were wrong!

Choosing your battles is important. I do not see Illinois gun owners demanding a good carry law. I see a few meek requests, but politicians only laugh at those. They laughed at us "hicks and bitter clingers" in New York, Colorado and in the national debate. If this is not obvious to you, watch Bloomberg's anti-rights advertisement. The gun owners of Illinois will not win gun rights if they continue in the same manner as years past.

The citizen gun owners of Illinois must make it clear that their politicians MUST pass some sort of reasonable carry law or face some sort of PERSONAL consequence (which should be determined by Illinois citizens). We are at the point in our history where corruption is so rampant that doing otherwise will only result in the same bad behavior on the part of politicians.


RE: End Game

The end game is that politicians will not willingly allow citizens to carry in THEIR state. Gun owners just happen to live on THEIR property. This mindset will continue until gun owners make them change it. The method is up to those living in Illinois. If you cannot see this obvious fact, then you will never win.

Wake up, thats exactly what have been doing for many years. Today it paid off.

I love it when people talk crap on IL. After the veto-proof super majority passed the CCW today IL gun laws are looking pretty decent. We have no AWB, No mag bans, SBRs are legal, and now Shall Issue CCW with statewide preemption.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Quote:

I love it when people talk crap on IL. After the veto-proof super majority passed the CCW today IL gun laws are looking pretty decent. We have no AWB, No mag bans, SBRs are legal, and now Shall Issue CCW with statewide preemption.

I hear ya. It's the mind set that everyone from Illinois is from Chicago or everyone from New York is from NYC. Narrow minded people abound everywhere. I live near the Illinois river and have enjoyed a very good sportsman's life. Sure there are better places but my family is here, my wife has a great career with big yellow and the cost of living here is pretty low. I plan to move South someday but that is a ways off. I'll stay and fight the liberals in the meantime.




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[ilbob]

well, the GA passed some kind of screwy LTC bill yesterday and it now goes to the governor. this bill is so badly written that at present the people that allegedly helped write it do not understand it.

all we really know about it is that it is expensive and there is virtually no where that one can carry using it.

thus I refer to it as a LTC nowhere.

on the bright side, maybe the governor will veto it and the veto sticks. or he makes it even worse with an amendatory veto and that sticks making it easier to attack in court.

 

[tomrkba]

It is sad that you think you won!

The list of prohibited places alone shows lawmakers' contempt for Illinois citizens. It certainly makes carry nearly useless in the state and very definitely infringes on the right to bear arms. They conveniently forget everything past "Subject only to the police power".

But, like most gun owners, people accept unconstitutional restrictions as if they have received a gift from the legislature.

 

[ilbob]

It is sad that you think you won!

The list of prohibited places alone shows lawmakers' contempt for Illinois citizens. It certainly makes carry nearly useless in the state and very definitely infringes on you right to bear arms. They conveniently forget everything past "Subject only to the police power".

But, like most gun owners, you accept unconstitutional restrictions as if you have received a gift from your legislature.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. This bill is just bad as far as actually carrying a firearms.

OTOH, maybe we can use it as a base to build on and in 5 years maybe it will be worth something.

It is by no means over. The governor might mess with it, and hopefully the court angle will not be forgotten. It is also possible that come June 9 the court will say this dubious bill does not fix the constitutional defects in the UUW law.

 

[HexHead]

For people living in Free America, the law that just got passed in IL is a joke, and a bad one at that.

 

[JFtheGR8]

It is sad that you think you won!

The list of prohibited places alone shows lawmakers' contempt for Illinois citizens. It certainly makes carry nearly useless in the state and very definitely infringes on you right to bear arms. They conveniently forget everything past "Subject only to the police power".

But, like most gun owners, you accept unconstitutional restrictions as if you have received a gift from your legislature.

Once again, all of us in Illinois are not from Chicago. It sucks more for them than it does for us downstate and it's a good starting point considering the political climate here. I don't plan to visit there anytime soon either. Maybe it will prompt them to get out and vote for once. Chicago politicians are the problem with this state and the people are finally starting to figure it out. For those of you that think your "free" state is immune, especially border states, the new immigration laws the liberals are trying to pass will turn your state blue overnight. You also didn't get to where you are with ccw and open carry laws overnight. It's taken decades to get to what you have.




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[tomrkba]

I am not going to jump up and down for joy like you want me to because you won nothing but contempt from lawmakers.

The point is a turd sandwich with mustard is still a turd sandwich. It was handed to you because you asked for it, rather than demanded your right to bear arms under the Illinois constitution. Your legislature needs some serious leash yanking, which you refuse to do. You will never get your rights back until you and your friends start pulling.

 

[ilbob]

I am not going to jump up and down for joy like you want me to because you won nothing but contempt from lawmakers.

The point is a turd sandwich with mustard is still a turd sandwich. It was handed to you because you asked for it, rather than demanded your right to bear arms under the Illinois constitution. Your legislature needs some serious leash yanking, which you refuse to do. You will never get your rights back until you and your friends start pulling.

IL courts have made it clear that there is effectively no RTKBA in the IL constitution despite what it seems to say. When parsed out, I think the IL courts are right about what the IL constitution actually says. Another case of our side getting suckered at the 1970 constitutional convention.

I suspect we have been sucker punched here as well. There are some very poorly worded parts of this bill that may have been worded that way by the other side quite deliberately. That is what happens when laws are made in secret. IL badly needs a constitutional provision that would require all laws to be publicly available for 10 days in the form being voted on before it can be voted on so everyone has a chance to read them and digest what they actually mean.

 

[JFtheGR8]

I am not going to jump up and down for joy like you want me to because you won nothing but contempt from lawmakers.

The point is a turd sandwich with mustard is still a turd sandwich. It was handed to you because you asked for it, rather than demanded your right to bear arms under the Illinois constitution. Your legislature needs some serious leash yanking, which you refuse to do. You will never get your rights back until you and your friends start pulling.

My point is that people like you want to lump every citizen of Illinois into the Chicago welfare system. Practically every county in Illinois is a red county except for Cook county (and East St Louis). I have been demanding my rights and I have been a single issue voter. By saying the word "you" then it seems as if you think I or any other Illini member of this forum has control over the legislature. We don't, Chicago does. The people of Chicago need to stand up and demand their rights because the rest of us have been and that's what's gotten us this far. Even though it's a small step it is a step in the right direction.


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[jim243]

It was handed to you because you asked for it, rather than demanded your right to bear arms under the Illinois constitution

What? It was not handed to us, they were ORDERED to do it by the court. Your thinking is so convoluted it is not funny. Illinois gun laws have been less restrictive than many other states. Try to get a handgun in MI and see what you have to do. What is the waiting period in NJ for handguns? How many AR-15's & AK-47's can you buy in CA? And you freedom loving westerners in CO I feel sorry for you and your mag bans.

So you relatives of a mule and donkey mating, kiss my back end, I've owned firearms and shot in Illinois for the past 50 years and have had no problems. Yes there is a hell hole in the northeast part of the State called Chicago, but it's been a problem ever since the Great Fire back in the 1800's. As far as leaving my family and friends by leaving the State, get a life, and I feel sorry that you are such a lonely bunch that you have no one that means that much to you.

Illinois has some of the most beautiful forests, nice size deer, great fishing, excellent universities, great shopping and the largest number of politicians that have spent time in federal prisons. It's funny that so many of our Governors spend time at Club Fed.

I can honestly say that I feel safer not carrying in Illinois that many do by carrying in other states like NY, NJ, TX, LA, CA, KS, DC & even FL. And as far as self-defense I would only have a concern about that on the south side of Chicago.

Jim

 

[CZguy]

and the largest number of politicians that have spent time in federal prisons.

That would be kinda catchy on Illinois license plates.

 

[ljnowell]

well, the GA passed some kind of screwy LTC bill yesterday and it now goes to the governor. this bill is so badly written that at present the people that allegedly helped write it do not understand it.

all we really know about it is that it is expensive and there is virtually no where that one can carry using it.

thus I refer to it as a LTC nowhere.

on the bright side, maybe the governor will veto it and the veto sticks. or he makes it even worse with an amendatory veto and that sticks making it easier to attack in court.

Wrong on so many levels. Obviously you havent read the bill at all. The only bad no carry is public transport, which missouri and many others have. You are greatly exaggerating it because you didnt read the bill to understand it.

edit: You cant carry im govt buildings, hospitals, bars, public transport, nuclear power plants, parks, festivals, prisons. That isnt nowhere by a long shot. Dont let the truth get in your way though!