Continued problems with my 1911A1

[Devonai]

1911Tuner and Stans have been helping me fix problems I've been having with my Auto Ordnance 1911A1. Unfortunately, it was assembled by Numrich before Kahr bought the name. If I had known that I probably wouldn't have bought it.

Anyway, I fixed a feeding problem but I have had persistant ejection problems. About 20% of the time, the fired case gets stuck between the left side of the ejection port and the extractor. A significant amount of force is usually required to free the case. This occurs with all five of my magazines, so they shouldn't be part of the problem.

I replaced the extractor with a Wilson "Bulletproof" extractor, but to no avail. Could there be something wrong with my ejector? How easy is it to replace the ejector?

 

[Josey]

I suggest a gunsmith trip. The Ed Brown parts are good quality. I have found the old Numrich AOs to be poorly assembled/fitted. The pistol needs to be checked for tolerances and parts will probably have to be fitted. I would dump it at a gun show myself.

 

[Sheldon]

Extractors need to be tuned/fit to the pistol. They are supposed to have enough tension to hold a loaded cartridge (around 3 lbs or so). It sounds like your extractor does not have enough tension if any at all. It is an easy enough thing to adjust. Just take the extractor out and put a little (trial and error, but a little may go a long way) bend in it to give you the needed tension. Have the slide off the frame and just slide the round in under the extractor paying attention to how much pressure is needed to accomplish this. You can go 1911forum.com to for more info or get a nice manual for the 1911 pattern pistol. I like the Kuhnhausen Manual a lot and Wilson has a nice one too. With too little tension the round is not supported and held throughout the extraction precess and the round sometimes slips off the ectractor before it hits the ejector and you get the type of failure you're experiencing. Too much tension and it will sometimes jam on feeding a new round into the chamber as the rim of the new cartridge will not be able to slip into the extractor. Hope this helps.

 

[Devonai]

Josey, I wouldn't mind offloading this pistol except that my ethics would demand full disclosure.

Sheldon, thanks for your help. I have the Wilson 1911 guidebook and I used the instructions included with the new extractor to adjust the tension. It didn't seem to be the problem, but I can always tighten it up even more.

 

[1911Tuner]

Time for Drastic Measures

Devonai..Check your PMs, lad. We're gonna fix this thing. Any man
who refuses to dump a problem on a fellow shooter has earned my
full respect.

Tuner

 

[stans]

Any man who refuses to dump a problem on a fellow shooter has earned my full respect.

A big 10-4 on that! Extraction problems can be fixed, sometimes it just takes time to find the problem area.

 

[PCRCCW]

"Any man who refuses to dump a problem on a fellow shooter has earned my full respect."

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shoot well

 

[Razor 10]

Does your gun have a extended ejector? If so I think that may be the problem. The ejector is pushing the case out too early and jamming it up, take a look at this site www.blindhogg.com and look at the ejector section.



Nick

 

[1911Tuner]

Long Ejector?

Razor asked:

Does your gun have a extended ejector?

Not unless somebody swapped it out before he got it. Auto-Ordnance 1911A1s come with the standard ejector.

An extended ejector can cause a hang-up like he's describing if the extractor hook is too long, or if the slide is short-stroking, but it would likely occur more often than what he's getting.

Welcome to THR, razor!

Tuner

 

[Razor 10]

Tuner, Thanks I didnt know. I have been reading all of your posts and they have been very helpfull, thanks


Nick

 

[Arc Angel]

OK, I'm not an expert. (Barely know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.) Why not try dropping the recoil spring weight back by a pound or two. If this doesn't do it, then take a 64th off the end of the ejector. You can always install another one - correct? The other things I'd look at are the angles on the ends of the extractor and ejector, as well as the, 'slop' in the linkage, slide/frame fit. Is the barrel canting horizontally when it unlocks? When you get this figured out, I hope you'll post the answer! Plaudits on refusing to dump the piece on another shooter.

 

[dsk]

An Auto Ordinance 1911-A1 was my very first 1911, back around 1990. It was also very nearly my last, as it was such a POS I wondered how in hell our troops could've won any wars with those things. Then common sense prevailed and I realized the problem wasn't the design, but rather one manufacturer's execution of it. My AO had such deep tooling marks inside everything felt rough and gritty when I worked the action. The chamber had a couple of deep gouges that caused FTF issues. Originally the feed ramp was so narrow it flat out wouldn't feed a single round from the mag into the chamber, proof positive that some makers do not test-fire guns before shipping.

Anyway, I suspect your problem may be due to AO's sterling quality uncontrol. Hopefully 1911Tuner or Stans can figure out what's still salvagable for you.

 

[1911Tuner]

QC

dsk said:

Anyway, I suspect your problem may be due to AO's sterling quality uncontrol.

LOL...UN-control. I like that. Can I use it sometime?

One thing most of the Auto-Ords were good for...A fella could learn a
LOT about troubleshooting and tuning from one. Most of'em can
be made to run...though some have to be forced to.

Oddly enough, I've got one that's an early 80s production gun that is
actually remarkable. Fit and finish is very good, including the barrel.
After just a little attention to minor detail the gun runs like a Singer
sewing machine, and after replacing the slop-in factory bushing will
shoot rings around my NRM Colt. Proof that even a blind squirrel
can find a nut once in a while.

We'll stick with Devonai 'til we get this thing to run or he gives up.


Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Old Fuff]

Given who made it ...

I would also check for an out-of-square or too narrow breech face. It sounds like some cases may be binding.

Also remove the recoil spring assembly and hand-cycle empty cases and/or dummy rounds (no loaded ones) through the action and see if you can feel anything binding up.

 

[Devonai]

I do suspect the breech face may be too narrow. Should I be able to slip a cartridge through the entire length of the face, or only from below? Because it's too narrow to be slipped in from above.

1911Tuner, T-minus 2 hours before I go to the range and give the extractor one more try.

 

[Old Fuff]

Ah so, I think we have a clue .....

The cartridge should slide up freely to the point where it's concentric with the chamber.

It's also possible that the extractor hole is bored too far inboard.

If possible, I'd beg or borrow a different slide and see if the problem went away. If so, you'd be better able to isolate the cause of your problems.

 

[Devonai]

What I mean is that the cartridge will slide up as far as it needs to in order to be in battery, but it won't go any further than that. Once it slides up to concentric, it won't budge any further.

 

[Devonai]

Success!

This afternoon I further adjusted the Wilson "Bulletproof" extractor. This time, I put just enough of a bend in it to make it just slightly difficult to reinsert into the extractor channel (before, it would drop right in). It also held a cartridge against the breech face when placed there by hand, something it didn't do before.

At the range, I went through 200 rounds of hardball and 20 rounds of Winchester Silvertip. The weapon did not malfunction once. It was also rather obvious that I had changed the ejection pattern. Instead of ejecting over my left shoulder, the cases flew over my right shoulder at about a 45 degree angle.

Thank you to everyone who offered their advice on this issue. 1911Tuner, thank you most of all. I only hope that more problems don't crop up in the future!

 

[dsk]

I applaud your persistence, but for me life's too short to waste time screwing with guns that refuse to work right. Definitely not pass it on to someone else, but maybe at least salvage the useable parts and junk the rest.

Even after getting such a gun to run, I'd be way too nervous to trust it. I eventually got my AO to run, but for the longest time I had actually gotten into the habit of looking at the gun after each shot to see if it had jammed up or not. How's that for confidence?

 

[Devonai]

I'm very meticulous when it comes to my investments. If fixing the problem is less expensive than replacing the item, I always try and fix it first. With the Wilson extractor and repeated trips to the range, I added maybe $100 to the cost of the AO. I've still put less money into the pistol than I would have spent on a contemporary model, even used. The cheapest 1911 in my area was a used Colt 1991 for $495. In this part of the country, at least, 1911s retain a lot of value. Certainly paying another $50-100 for a more reliable pistol would have been preferable, but lacking a crystal ball who's to say that one would have been flawless, too?

I don't consider my at-home efforts (polishing the barrel link/lugs, adjusting the extractor tension, etc) to be a waste of time any more than watching television. In fact, most of my smithing/cleaning takes place with C-SPAN or Fox News on in the background. Besides, firearms with a rich history (1911, Garand, M1 Carbine, SMLE) are entirely worth my time to tune and perfect.

Honestly, I won't carry my AO 1911A1 for self defense until I've put a couple hundred more rounds through it. I have a Beretta 92 and a Glock 30 for that. But once I'm comfortable with the actual field results, I'll proudly carry it in defense of my life.

 

[1911Tuner]

AO is SMO-kin!

Excellent news! Glad we could help out.

dsk said:

Even after getting such a gun to run, I'd be way too nervous to trust it. I eventually got my AO to run, but for the longest time I had actually gotten into the habit of looking at the gun after each shot to see if it had jammed up or not.

Been there and done THAT a few times. ...and a time or three,
the guns in limbo were fairly high-dollar semi-customs. The worst ones
are the ones with a problem that occurs intermittently. Hard to track the
bug down when they're like that.

All's well that ends well, though. Devonai, you might want to feel around the inside of the ejection port and find all the sharp edges you can, and
break the corners with some 320-grit wet or dry paper, then follow up with
600. A sharp corner is where a crack starts, and when a crack gets a foothold in an investment cast slide, it goes through to the rail pretty
quickly. Auto Ordnance slides are notorious for cracking in the port. No
need to overdo it...just smooth off the edges. Your slide will endure a lot
longer.

Luck!

Tuner