Controversy coming up..

[MCgunner]

I'm not a fan of Fackler. He's a hack, IMHO.

This is an apples and oranges goofy discussion. I say it's goofy because I carry my 9x19 Kel Tec every day in a pocket. It's plenty adequate for self defense being 3.5" at 25 yards accurate, shoots to POA, and makes 410 ft lbs at the muzzle with my +P load. It's with me 24/7 when I ain't, as I am today, carrying my .38 Special. I didn't in any way buy any of my BP guns save maybe my supercompanion for concealed carry. My 9s are working guns. My cap and balls are toys I just simply love to shoot. To me, they have little practical use. It's fun to consider carrying one, but it ain't happenin' with me. I could do that open carry in the field or if we get an open carry law in Texas someday, but it's not anything I just beg to do.

I'm not saying a cap and ball is not capable of killin' a man. I'm just saying this is an apples and oranges arrgument since I'm not going to carry any cap and ball revolver for self defense, excepting of course, that supercompanion on rare occasion. I do not think the round ball or conical bullet matches up to a modern JHP for self defense effectiveness, either, regardless of the diameter it starts out at or the KE it has. I don't carry FMJ in my 9, I carry 115 grain Hornady XTP JHPs.

 

[ofitg]

I won't try to defend Fackler, anymore than I would try to defend Marshall & Sanow. They have different viewpoints, and it's not really relevant to this discussion anyway.

Zombiphobia asked about terminal ballistics for two different loads - he didn't say for what purpose - so I tried to answer his question. I hope he can find some actual test data for the BP load, but I have my doubts. Perhaps McPherson's estimates will be useful.

 

[arcticap]

5: I also am aware that Colt ripped off Remington's design with the top-strap. It's a litt-nown much denied fact. Irrelevant to this topic.

If Colt ripped off Remington's top strap design then please explain why the
Colt Model 1855 - a.k.a. "Root Revolver" had a top strap before the Remington.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5612412&postcount=7

And while many might think that the Remington 1858 was the first model to have a top strap,
it would appear that the Colt 1855 designed by Root was first.
That is unless there was another model that pre-dated it that he copied.

 

[Zombiphobia]

I'm just saying this is an apples and oranges arrgument

and we're comparing nutrional values and tastes of those apples and oranges, which makes it NOT a silly discussion, but a scientific one.



Ok, maybe I was thinking about some other features of another Remmington pistol Colt ripped off when they created the SAA. Either way, Remmington is better, IMO, and I don't care which came first, and either way, Colt is not apart of of the discussion.


This discussions is PRIMARILY about the LOADS being fired from two very different, but SPECIFIC FIREARMS.

How 'bout this; when I get a chronograph(ahh, whoever mentioned chrono, thanks) I'll test the velocity and maybe get some ballistic gel or the life-like dummies from deadliest warrior and conduct some tests. It'd be good for research anyway.

 

[Zombiphobia]

Perhaps McPherson's estimates will be useful

yeah, that's the basic sort of info I'm looking for. Bullet path upon imact affected by factors such as bone contact, deformation causing changes in bullet path direction etc...

I've seen something similar to that done with various rifle, pistol, and shotgun rounds thru ballistic gel, but nothing for the bone-contact issue.

Guys bare with me on the lack of info I'm giving, I'm pretty tired. I think since there
s not really any ballistic testing done for BP guns, I'll look into getting a chronograph, ballistic gel, and a camera sometime.

I'm serious about those mannequines from deadliest warrior. That's a hell of a fine concept for ballistic testing of self-defense, hunting and/or assault weapon ammo. It'd give us a much better idea of how well these really worked in the past, too.

I'd love to have something like that set up that could measure various types of damage done upon bullet impact like muscle tissue damage, blood vessel/vein damage/bleeding/neurological/bone damage etc.... basically an organic living computer.

Aaahhh one day it'll exist. Quantum physics and nano technology will help make this idea a reality, albeit an extremely expensive one.

 

[junkman_01]

Yeah, talk is cheap.

 

[arcticap]

Page 4 of the linked thread mentions 3 cases of a people being shot with a C&B revolver.
In each case the victim died.

Stopping power of BP vs. Modern Cartridges

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570456&page=4&highlight=murder

 

[ZVP]

I have the same revolver but it's "stock" and I load @ 35 gr of Pyrodex (the most accurate load).
Love the way it handles! Points like my Short Vaquero .357!
Being new to this could you explain why you had the trhoat reamed?
Why the chambers too?
I am serious and i want to learn.
Thanks,
ZVP

 

[MCgunner]

Google Dr. Michael Courtney.