Conversions

[dewage83]

HEY GUY, I HAVENT POSTED TOO MUCH BUT HAVE DONE MY READING HERE. YOU GUYS ARE GREAT AND VERY INFORMATIVE. HERES MY QUESTION... I CAN BY A SEAR/TRIGGER KIT FOR AN M16 (SO DOES THAT MEAN M16-A1) FOR ABOUT 100 DOLLARS BUT I CAN BUY A M16-A1 FOR AROUND $15,000. SO IF I WAS TO BY A SEAR KIT AND CONVERT MY GUN (ANY COMBONATION OF GUN AND SEAR/TRIGGER KIT, FOR OUR PURPOSE) WOULDNT THAT BE A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER THAN BUYING A CLASS 3? .I KNOW YOU WOULD STILL NEED TO GET THE PAPPERWORK AND TAX STAMP AND WHAT NOT. BUT WOULDNT $12,000 BE WORTH IT? I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND HOW THE KITS ARE CHEAP BUT A COMPLETE CLASS 3 GUN IS 15X WHAT A CIVILIAN VERSION IS? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED

 

[brighamr]

CAPS LOCK ON
Typing politely

See the difference?

 

[General Geoff]

A $100 sear kit is most likely not legal.

 

[GlowinPontiac]

saving money by converting a semi-auto into a full-auto is a sure fire way to end up in federal prison.

 

[LAK Supply]

Do yourself a favor and wait until after Heller is settled and see what other action is taken after the decision. If it goes well a following lawsuit could take care of FOPA and the price of MG's could be dramatically reduced. You will have to wait a while and see what happens, but it beats going to prison or paying $15k+ for a $1500 gun.

 

[Coronach]

Short Answer:

It's illegal as all heck.

Long Answer:

You can buy a M16 sear kit for $100. You can buy also buy a "lightning link" or "drop in auto sear" for pretty cheap, too. The problem is that you cannot simultaneously own one of the aforementioned items and also own (or be in possession of) an AR-15. Doing so means that you're in possession of a machine gun that is not registered with the ATF. You will be en route to Club Fed if caught, and I imagine it is pretty easy to get caught.

What this means is that you can own an AR15 or you can own a sear kit- and without the AR-15 the sear kit is nothing more than a bunch of useless parts. That's the reason they're so cheap- they're essentially useless.

The reason a registered M16 is so expenseive is because of its rarity. It has nothing to do with the cost of manufacture. Making a full-auto (or burst) M16 is basically no more expensive than making a semi-auto one. The problem is that the civvie-legal supply of M16s is capped, and demand is still high. Limited supply + high demand = skyrocketing price.

That's the basic gist of it.

Mike

 

[gunshow]

A $100 sear kit is most likely not legal.

No they're completely legal. M16 fire control parts are 100% legal for ANYONE to own.

There are people on this board who will jump to the conclusion that you are a federal agent trying to bait people, and/or sniff out individuals for their next "raid," but I'm not going to do that. Asking a question like this by someone with only a couple of posts on record is highly suspicious though. You sound like you already know a lot of certain things which makes your claimed ignorance highly unlikely (you suspiciously focus on the superficial price aspect, almost as if there's no explanation for it). The only way you can convert your AR-15 to full auto and keep the feds off your back is to purchase a RECEIVER THAT HAS BEEN REGISTERED AS A FULL AUTO PRIOR TO RONALD REAGAN'S AND NRA'S TREASON IN MAY OF 1986.

Now if you ARE a federal agent in disguise, your attempt was not very sophisticated and you must be a lower level agent. In which case, tell Maximum Mikey we said "hi."

If you're NOT a federal agent in disguise, I don't mean to give you an unwelcome attitude.

By the way, I seriously commend the moderators for having the self restraint to not do this

by now.

 

[mekender]

you are asking for bigtime legal trouble for this one... oh and

 

[blacksheep]

You can buy a M16 sear kit for $100. You can buy also buy a "lightning link" or "drop in auto sear" for pretty cheap, too. The problem is that you cannot simultaneously own one of the aforementioned items and also own (or be in possession of) an AR-15. Doing so means that you're in possession of a machine gun that is not registered with the ATF. You will be en route to Club Fed if caught, and I imagine it is pretty easy to get caught.

What this means is that you can own an AR15 or you can own a sear kit- and without the AR-15 the sear kit is nothing more than a bunch of useless parts. That's the reason they're so cheap- they're essentially useless.

i'm really scratching my head here, other than the club fed part, is this a true statement?.

 

[Coronach]

That's my understanding. IANAL and IANAATFA (I Am Not An A T F Agent), but that's the gist of it- constructive possession will get you if you own a semi-auto AR-15 and a full-auto trigger group.

Mike

 

[DMF]

That's my understanding. IANAL and IANAATFA (I Am Not An A T F Agent), but that's the gist of it- constructive possession will get you if you own a semi-auto AR-15 and a full-auto trigger group.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Why do people insist on misusing the term "constructive possession?"

As I've said MANY, MANY, times before, and provided citations to explain, constructive possession has NOTHING to do with being able to construct an item. Constructive possession relates to excercising dominion and control over an item, but not actually having the item in your physical possession. For example, when your car keys are in your pocket you physically possess those keys, however, when you set them on the kitchen counter and go sit in the living room to read your mail and watch TV, you still possess those keys because you intend to exercise dominion and control over those keys despite the fact that they are not actually in your physical possession at that time. When those keys are on the kitchen counter you have "constructive possession" of the keys. It has nothing to do with ability or intent to make a set of keys.

I sure wish people would learn the facts about these topics.

Previous explanations of constructive possession:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3992720&highlight=constructive#post3992720

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2923641&highlight=constructive#post2923641

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3041826&highlight=constructive#post3041826

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3824770&highlight=constructive#post3824770


Also, as I've advised before when people are confused about what is legal or not:

If this is more than a hypothetical discussion it is best to consult with a lawyer who has experience with local, state, and fed firearms laws.

 

[dewage83]

ok sorry my caps are always on for auto-cadd commands i for get to take them off but its funny how people ignore my question to worry about caps lock. but ok so theres not too much helpful info besides one.(gunshow) ok so im not understanding still. bear with me. i cannot build a fully or selcet fire weapon with out a RECEIVER registed already as a full auto(pre 1994??) am i gettin this? and converting a receiver(THROUGH THE ATF-nothing out of the atfs eye),even through the papper work wth the atf, and registering it, i cannot convert a semi-suto receiver to fully auto? im sorry but to everyone who thinks i just wanna buy the kit and slap it on (with out registering it or at least making the atf aware) is crazy. we all own guns, im on a fourm right now, ok pushing gun nut, i wouldnt want to do ANYTHING to gte them takin away. i dont drink at parties because i'll have to drive home and worry about a dui. you see where im going. i owuldnt have asked it in a legal board if i wanted to do it illegally. you know?....and why would this be locked? i think its informative to people who want to own a select fire weapon with out payin 15K or going to jail.

 

[dewage83]

correction- pre1986?-and one more question sorry what does constructive possession have to do with this? obviously i want to make a select fire weapon whats what my quesrion was about. if i cant do it legally i dont want the pieces to do illegally. especially because their usless and arnt too cheap. i'd go buy some ammo with that money.

 

[gunshow]

Thanks dewage.

It comes down to this: from the federal "government's" perspective, you just CAN'T have a select fire weapon unless you pay the tens of thousands for a transferable one (pre 1986) or risk going to jail. Since 1934 and especially 1986, the "laws" have been specifically written to stop you. There just is no other option. There is no option under federal "law" for you to convert ANYTHING post 1986 to select fire. End of story. If you want a select fire weapon, either find a transferable one (pre 1986) or move to a different country like Yemen or even "eye rack" where full autos are more legal.

Your "government" will crawl down your throat and ruin your life if you possess M16 fire control parts in the same house as an AR15 (constructive possession).

Supporting certain gun manufacturers (makers of so called "assault" weapons) will do more to protect the 2nd amendment than the route you're pursuing here anyway.

There comes a point where you must accept the fact that we're just not a free country anymore.

 

[Chipperman]

i cannot build a fully or selcet fire weapon with out a RECEIVER registed already as a full auto(pre 1986??)

The machine gun has to have been already registered before May of 1986. Most of the machine guns are registered receivers, but not all. Some are registered sears, bolts, lightning links, etc.



The bottom line is that there is no way to do it legally and inexpensively. If there were, we would all have 20 machine guns.

 

[dewage83]

THANK YOU(i meant the caps) you have given a clear, easy to understand, unbias answer. but you said it is possible to register all the parts, but it would be almost as expensive as buying one outright? yea i didnt think i was the first to come up with this idea but i hadnt seen any articles on it.

 

[Tyris]

I've seen illegally converted guns out in the woods here. Big fricking deal.

I give them one piece of advice. If you're going to shoot an illegal gun, at least make sure no one hears the report of an automatic weapon.

Put a silencer on it. Legal or otherwise (hey, if you're already breaking the law, might as well go for the gusto). It may save you from additional headache.

That said, dont break the law.

-T

 

[dewage83]

I've seen illegally converted guns out in the woods here. Big fricking deal.-Are you dumb? it is a big deal and isnt really too cool if you have to hid it from one of the biggest agencys in america. and like you said if anyone hears that they are to surely call the cops. I want a LEGAL selective fire. I dont even want fully I want burst to be honest. If I had to go out into the woods where noone oculd hear just to shoot my gun then what did i just waste at least 1100 on??? you know it just dosent make any sence to do it like that like i said i want it legal.

 

[rdhood]

So here is another question... MANY folks own the select-fire versions of fire-control-groups for AK47, AND a semi-auto AK47. Is this consider "constructive possession"? Or, does one have to have the extra FCG hole in the receiver to be prosecuted for "constructive possession"?

I think it is far more common for AK47 folks to have an old kit FCG. Most kits come with original selectfire FCGs. Most come without auto disconnectors, but some with, and they are only $8. They come with the kits, but 100% of people swap them out for a Tapco or other U.S. made FCG for 3 of their U.S. parts. I don't know anyone who has ever put the third hole in the rifle and installed one, and the mere mention of it is taboo on most AK building websites.

If Heller can open up the NFA books, I think a lot of people are going to be pulling out the 7mm drill/reamer and gas torch to install the factory FCG.

 

[DMF]

Is this consider "constructive possession"?

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I suggest you read my previous post, and the links provided. Constructive possession has nothing to do with the ability or intent to construct an object. Physical possession is when you physically have control of an object. Your car keys in your hand or in the pocket of the pants you are wearing is physical possession of the car keys. Constructive possession is excercising dominion and control over an item, but not actually having the item in your physical possession. So if you put the keys on the kitchen counter and go upstairs to your bedroom, you no longer have physical possession of the keys, but you still exercise dominion and control over those keys, and have intent to possess them, so you constructively possess those car keys. It has absolutely nothing to do with your ability or intent to make a set of car keys.

 

[TexasRifleman]

i cannot build a fully or selcet fire weapon with out a RECEIVER registed already as a full auto(pre 1994??) am i gettin this?

Not necessarily a receiver, but a "machine gun". And it's May 86, not 94.

A "machine gun" can mean different things to our friends in the dot gov.

A receiver can be registered, as can a drop in sear or Lightning Link. A registered sear or lightning link can be moved from rifle to rifle, making the host a machinegun while the registered part is installed, but returning the host to Title 1 status as soon as the registered part is removed.

As far as what you are talking about, making a new registered MG where none existed before, it's simply not going to happen because of the Hughes Amendment. Nothing NEW can be added to the NFA registry, you can only buy and sell what was already there.

Those $100 conversion kits are illegal to use, and there is no way around it.

 

[paul]

You cannot own a select-fire weapon that was made and registered after 1986.
Of course, that is "civilian" ownership.

We'll not go into the FFL/SOT angle because you are not ready for that much information...

Your head may explode.

P

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I've looked at the Constitution and all I can find is that Congress has power to enforce its laws(the Second Amendment notwithstanding for the sake of discussion), but no power to punish if you break such a law. The only power Congress has vis-a-vis punishment is if you counterfeit money(and get caught), do something bad while in the military, or for treason.

Constitutionally, all Congress can do is send the militia to take your unstamped machine gun away from you. That said, I will not advise disobeying any law Congress has usurped the power to enact or usurped power to punish you over. Just know the truth, because if you find yourself in such a situation, you'll have a defense you can mount. You might even find someone with the billions to support your challenge to the unconstitutional law.

Woody

 

[dewage83]

OK cowboy thank you but like i said a couple times before i would like to do it LEAGALLY!! if not im not paying my hard earned money to go to prison.

also thank you texas rifleman for clearing that up for me. now i understand why its not possible and people arnt making 12K off a conversion gun.