Cooking a cartridge

[DF357]

Cooking a cartidge

There was mention in another thread about a CSI episode where a burning car exploded some ammo in the trunk. SOmeone said that cooking a shell will not make it explode and that the cartrifge will swell and vent the gas off.

I don't know what the conventional thinking on this is but I'll tell you my experience.

My son was sitting around a campfire one summer and someone brought up some scrap wood and sawdust for the fire that they had swept out of their cellar. Unknown to him, a live 22 was in the sawdust and went into the fire. A few minutes later, while my son tipped back a can of soda - POW! - and he screamed. Either the cartridge or the slug hit his raised hand as it was wrapped around the can at his lips. We found the cartdige later on the ground. A huge chunk of the side of his finger disappeared as the finger stopped/deflected whatever was heading for his face. A trip to the hospital showed that the bone was actually damaged - xrays showed that schrapnel was still in the remaining flesh and always would be.

He was EXTREMELY fortunate that he had the can to his lips otherwise it would have gotten him in the eye area.

Sooo, I don't know if a cook off will explode ALL ammo but it did this one.

Don't try it yourself, you might not like what happens.

 

[AZ Jeff]

Back in the 1930's, noted gun writer/Ordnance Corps member Julian Hatcher ran a series of experiments on the effects of uncontained ammo rounds when they "cooked off".

He electrically ignited the rounds, and contained them in various types of things such as cardboard boxes, pants pockets, etc.

His conclusion was that shotshells (paper hulls at the time) were pretty much a non-threat when they cooked off, as the paper hull would rupture, spewing out the propellant gas, and that was the total effect.

Most centerfire rounds are relatively harmless as well, in that they burst out the sidewall of the case, and/or the bullet "pops" free of the neck, and that's the sum total of the effect.

With the .22 rimfire round, the situation was different. The relatively thin wall of the .22 case often separated into several pieces, and with each piece being a little chunk of brass shrapnel. This shrapnel, while not heavy or moving real fast, was very sharp, and tended to be dangerous for up to 10 feet.

Write-ups on all of this can be found in the book "Hatcher's Notebook", which the NRA offers for sale periodically. It's an interesting read.....

 

[warddc]

that was me

That was I that made that statement and I should have said "excluding 22 rimfire". The 22 rimfire is a little different. It has a very narrow case and a small diameter. The force that it takes to stretch the small diameter mouth is great enough to make the brass become a projectile. The 22 rimfire case is also crimped very well into the bullet as this round has the same brass diameter as the bullet. There is a term for this but I forget.

Dave.

 

[Oracle]

The term you're looking for is "heeled".

 

[BluesBear]

Outside Lubricated, Heeled Bullet

 

[BIGJim223]

My experience on this subject.
As a "STUPID" teenager with lots of spare time and lots of Dad's ammo relitivly easy to obtain, we (myself and brothers) used to steal a few 30-30 Win rounds out of the old man's gun cabinet. Wanting to have some fun, we would clamp the brass down in a vise in the workshop, and hold a propane torch to the primer end, while standing as far off to the side as our arms would allow! Shortly thereafter, there would be a tremendous BANG as the shell cooked off. Luckily none of us were ever killed or even hurt. Other than sever hearing damage (suprised I can even hear today!) the bullet would pop out and only go 3 or 4 feet from the vise and clatter to the floor.
We concluded from these informal tests that the bullet needed the containment of the chamber and barrrel for it to have any energy. We also tried this with 16g paper shot shells, with the same results, but way more noise.
OK, I've learned a lot since those stupid teen years, so please don't flame me And PLEASE don't try this at home!!! Just my observations, your milage may vary!!
BIGJim223

 

[ENC]

I seem to remember a movie where abunch of kids did the same thing i.e. bullet in vise only they hit it with a hammer.

 

[Mal H]

BIGJim - Aren't you being redundant when you say "STUPID" teenager? The fact that I am alive today is a testiment to the existence of God, 'cause he sure looked after me like he looked after you during those 'formative' years. Making cannons, shooting CO2 cartridges at barges on the Potomac, "experiments" with M80's (the real Army type), shooting shotgun shells out of a Vary pistol, etc., etc., etc. It's a miracle, I tell you.

 

[JCM298]

Cooking ammo

Back in the late `60's/early 70's, while wroking a graveyard shift, I was sent to a car fire, about 25 miles east of Tucson on I-10. When I arrived, I saw that a medium size Airstream trailer was afire. The fire was far beyound being contained with my medium size fire extinguisher. The only fire equipment that would respond was from D-M AFB. ETA was 30-35 minutes.

While waiting for the fire fighters to arrive, I talked to the driver/owner. While discussing the situation, I heard a low explosion, followed by a few more. I also noticed that there were holes in the aluminum skin of the trailer. The owner told me that he had a thousand or so rounds of pistol, rifle, and shotgun ammo. in the trailer. The fire was cooking off some of the ammo., but I never learned which type was causing the problem.

I had to request that westbound I-10 be shut down until the fire was extinguished.

In those days, the Dept. of Transportation got very "testy" when an interstate freeway was shut down. I had to write a memo or two about that. Fortunately the Lt. backed me up.

YES, some ammo will cook off and create damage,

John

 

[Brigrat]

I personnally witnessed an idiot throw some 9mm shells in a camp fire. I then left the area. 20 or so minutes later, I heard the pop, and one of my fellow jarheads scream. We runshed him to the hospital, and that is where they removed the 9mm case from his loft eye. He has no left eye anymore naturally, and it ended his Marine corps career. Rounds may not cook off per se, but that doesn't make it safe.

 

[Prodigalshooter]

A friend of mine is one of the unfortunate people who lost their home in the giant fires we had here in SoCal in October. He had a bunch of ammo in his house in large GI ammo cans; .45ACP, 12 guage, etc. After the fire, while trying to salvage some of their possesions, we found the ammo cans. They were bulged out, lots of small dents and large ones, but only a few holes. I looked inside and the cases were split on all the brass, the bullets had melted down to a big lump in the bottom. He told me he'd had several hundred rounds in there, only 3 or 4 of those made holes in the can though. I certainly wouldn't want to be anywhere near where ammo was cooking off, but I think it mostly expires by splitting.

 

[Jim K]

I was once involved as an "expert" in an investigation of an incident where a man lost a couple of fingers and had serious wounds to the rest of his hand and arm. The story was that his kids had put a .22 "shell" (cartridge) into their father's ashtray as a joke, and that his cigarette had set the round off. That sounded reasonable to the police investigator, and was reported in the paper, but I did not think that a .22 cartridge had the kind of power to blow off fingers and mash a pewter ashtray so hard that the design imprinted itself into a wooden chair arm.

Sure enough, it soon came out that the guy was stealing dynamite and detonators from his employer, the railroad company, to blow out stumps on a small farm he had bought. It was a dynamite "cap", not a .22 round, that the kids had innocently left as a "surprise" for daddy. The father knew what it was, but told the ".22" story to cover up his illegal activities.

In another case, a sporting goods store burned down. Firemen claimed that they "ducked flying bullets for hours" and that nearby homes were "pockmarked" by bullet holes. I checked around and none of the neighbors could show me a bullet hole in their houses, even though in several cases, they had told the press that their houses were "riddled".

Moral: Don't believe everything you read or hear about ammunition behavior in fires.

Jim

 

[w00dg0blin]

A little off subject

Out shooting BB guns as a teenager I happened upon a 12 gauge shotshell lying on the ground. It looked like it been there a while. It occurred to me at the time that it would be appropriate to stick it in the ground and shoot the primer with a BB. This was done point blank and was less than spectacular. It only produced a loud pop and barely made a hole in the ground. I suspect that even though it was a plastic shell that the powder got damp and was inert. Otherwise the shell itself should have gain some projectile properties. Proof that Darwinism is a bunch of bunk and there really is a loving, merciful God.

Now I have two boys of my own and live in constant fear of what they might dream up.

 

[Ol' Badger]

Use lots of salt!