Copper, Copper, Everywhere!

[moooose102]

OK, in a different post, i found out (the hard way) that cleaning solvents go bad with age. anyway, after removing what must be at least 10 years of copper fouling, how can i tell if i have screwed up the barrel? other than, of course, just shooting it and seeing how tight of groups it still holds. also, when i am doing that, (grouping) should i use hand loads with ultra tight quality control, or just use some otc regular shells? my guess is that hand loads would be better, IF i had some already worked up and known to be an excellent accuracy round (which i do not). it's a .300 win mag. in a remington 700. idea's? thanks.

 

[moosehunt]

I don't follow your logic at all. How would you have messed up the barrel simply because you hadn't cleaned it? Or not cleaned it of copper? Unless you used corrosive primers, all the failure to clean did was maybeso reduce
accuracy until it was cleaned. And I don't understand why you would consider expensive store bought ammo if you can load some economically?

 

[moooose102]

well, i am worried that with all that copper, there may be some kind of permanant damage. i dont know if that is possible or not. as for the factory ammo, i know that the accuracy is quite good with that. it has been a LONG time since i worked up a good round (i just started reloading again this winter) so i dont know what to expect yet. besides, i am not talking about hundreds of rounds, 9 shells should tell the tall.

 

[rcmodel]

Severe copper fouling will not hurt a barrel in the slightest, as long as there is no corrosion under it when you clean it all out.

If you are getting clean, not green patches after using a good brand of Copper-Solvent, it should shoot just like it did before it became copper fouled.

rcmodel

 

[Jim K]

It takes a lot of shooting to build up enough copper fouling to affect velocity. A lot of the advice regarding fouling is just being repeated from the days a century ago when cupro-nickel jackets really did deposit heaps of fouling in barrels, and lands almost disappeared in spots due to the lumps of fouling. Those days are gone, but as we well know, few gun writers have original thoughts, so most simply keep repeating the old mantras about fouling they read when they were kids, and which were old even then.

(Along the same lines, it was not more than six months ago that I read in a gunzine to avoid mercuric primers in steel case, Berdan-primed ammo. Nonsense, as the only thing mercuric primers do is weaken the brass for reloading, obviously not a problem with steel cases and Berdan primers. Plus, no one has made mercuric primers for at least a half century. That writer was simply spouting something he heard or read and had no idea what he was talking about.)

Jim

 

[moooose102]

it took a L-O-N-G- time to get it to quit coming out green, but i am CERTAIN now there is no more copper in it. i am glad to hear that it shouldn't have hurt the gun. WHEW!

 

[brickeyee]

If you foul a barrel with copper and fail to clean, as soon as there is ANY moisture present galvanic corrosion starts.
The presence of two metals in contact any liquid that can allow ion movement is all it takes.
If you run some oil over the bore you may prevent the water from being on the surface.
Any oil the surface had before firing is GONE.
It is scrapped off and burned off.
The bore is DRY. It has NO protection.

 

[moosehunt]

Right on, Mr. Keenan! Ever notice how most all of the "info" is recycled every few years? Rarely anything new, just repeats. Example regarding the fouling--I figured I probably was past due cleaning my .270 the other day--probably pushing 400 rounds since the last washdown. About 5 patches with Barnes CR-10 and no more copper. None of the patches were even very blue. In otherwords, there just wasn't much copper (or any other fouling) in there! But if a guy went by the magazines, you'ld expect it to be about plumb plugged with copper and all else!

 

[rcmodel]

Those days are gone,

I can't agree with that at all.

Year before last, my dentist ask me what could possibly cause his Browning BAR 7mm Mag to start key-holing bullets.
He had completely missed two antelope at around 150 & 250 yards on his last trip out west. Testing on the guides 100 yard range indicated the bullets were key-holing, and there was no indication of a measurable group of any kind on the target.

A close inspection found the rifling was not even visible under the severe copper fouling. He told me he had never really cleaned it properly since he bought it in the mid 1980's.
Except to run an oily patch down the barrel after the end of each hunting season.

I spent two days getting all the copper fouling out of his barrel with copper solvent & JB.
At first, big strips of copper were coming out of the grooves, and there was still more left under that.

After I got it all out, the rifle would group under an inch again.

I firmly believe copper fouling is still alive and well!
I also believe whether it is a problem or not depends entirely on the individual barrel.

Some foul badly from the getgo, and always will, and some not at all.

rcmodel

 

[moosehunt]

I'd agree that each individual barrel is a factor. Also the bullets. I wonder if your dentist friend might have been shooting some Barnes X bullets? I reckon most folks know that they were bad for copper fouling, especially before the XLC version. In general though, bullet copper has improved in most bullets resulting in reduced copper build up in barrels. Also, cranking 'em out at laser speed doesn't help.

 

[rcmodel]

I doubt he had ever shot any Barnes X-bullets in it, ever.

He seems to be more of a "Whatever Wally-World has on Sale" kind of guy.

Ammo he gave me to test with was an odd assortment of Remington Core-Lokt and Winchester Power-Point, with a few old Federals mixed in each box.

rcmodel

 

[Dumpster Baby]

A close inspection found the rifling was not even visible under the severe copper fouling.

I carelessly let a Colt Trooper MKIII .357 barrel get that fouled with lead. I actually believed that all those lubed wadcutters I was shooting back then were sliding out the bore on that grease and not leading the bore.

Then one day I took a real close look at the bore and was horrified. It looked more like a .25 cal bore rather than a .35 cal bore. I also spent 2 days getting that lead out, and then switched over to jacketed bullets.