Corrections officers asked to leave Cheesecake Factory — for carrying guns

[carbine85]

I don't know if this is the correct forum or not for this. Move it if need be.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/1...o-leave-cheesecake-factory-for-carrying-guns/
I have carried in Cheesecake Factory in the past and ignored the signs same as I always do. I don't think this was a misunderstanding. You don't manage a business like that without knowing policy. This guy knew what he was doing.

 

[Speedo66]

Of course he or she knew what they were doing. Policy didn't change until it hit social media, then how the majority reacts dictates policy. Asking an in uniform member of a law enforcement agency to leave is an outrageous insult.

Every law enforcement union in the nation should bring this to the attention of their members, who should bring it to the attention of their friends and family. I don't generally frequent chain restaurants, but I'll never set foot in one of those.

 

[LNK]

After reading the article. It seems the company policy is to allow LEO's to carry, but not regular folks. As long as the signs have no force of law, do what you will, but if they know and ask, it is best to leave. I don't go places that I cannot carry. So, no cheescake for me.

LNK

 

[Dog Soldier]

These rules allow young Liberals to order Police Officers around. They really like that. We can only hope their jobs are terminated by low sales.

 

[bikerdoc]

For those of you who wish to take action


Cheesecake Factory Corporate Office
The Cheesecake Factory Corporate Office Address
The Cheesecake Factory
26901 Malibu Hills Road
Calabasas Hills, CA 91301
Contact The Cheesecake Factory
Phone Number: (818) 871-3000
Fax Number: (818) 871-3001
Website: http://www.thecheesecakefactory.com/
Email: Email The Cheesecake Factory
Executives
CEO: David M. Overton
CFO: W. Douglas Benn
COO: David M. Gordon

 

[ATN082268]

After reading the article. It seems the company policy is to allow LEO's to carry, but not regular folks. As long as the signs have no force of law, do what you will, but if they know and ask, it is best to leave. I don't go places that I cannot carry. So, no cheescake for me.

LNK

Although it may depend on the state, besides the generic no gun signs that a business may put up, does the law address other signs like, "no gun except for law enforcement?" Obviously law enforcement can carry in performance of their duties but I wouldn't think that would include stuff like cheesecakes

 

[Tcruse]

I suggest we all write and email these folks suggesting that if they want our business they will not only allow law enforcement to carry but all lawful carry by citizens. With enough push back they will change their policy.

 

[JO JO]

unbelievable so sick of this kind of stuff what do these liberals want a lawless nation ? Me I am happy to see the police around I still smile and say hi to them and would help one if needed,

 

[Stony]

I don't know all the circumstances of this situation, but I have had some experience dealing with correction officers many years ago in California. Most were not allowed to carry firearms and were not allowed the same firearm privileges regular police officers. Given the waiting period there, they were not exempt from it and most were not allowed to carry either at work or away from it.
I don't mean this in a negative way, just saying that there might be circumstances here that had some bearing on this situation.

 

[Old Dog]

I don't know all the circumstances of this situation, but I have had some experience dealing with correction officers many years ago in California. Most were not allowed to carry firearms and were not allowed the same firearm privileges regular police officers. Given the waiting period there, they were not exempt from it and most were not allowed to carry either at work or away from it.
I don't mean this in a negative way, just saying that there might be circumstances here that had some bearing on this situation.

You're wrong, and anyway, this happened in Washington, not California. The officers involved are community corrections officers (parole officers in other states). They are authorized to carry on and off duty.

 

[Ed Ames]

For those of you who wish to take action

Serious question: Why do you feel this is a relevant topic for this forum?

This is a firearms forum, not a law enforcement forum. It would be one thing if you were trying to protest the company policy of not allowing carry by the general public, but that doesn't seem to be the complaint. The complaint is that an employee ticked off law enforcement.

I personally couldn't care less what some employee of a chain restaurant asks law enforcement personnel to do, as long as it doesn't raise my taxes. It doesn't generalize (getting the company to admit they shouldn't tick off law enforcement doesn't mean they will change their mind about me carrying) so it isn't a gun issue, and certainly isn't my issue.

 

[1stmarine]

It seems they have apologized in a public statement.
Probably due to the SM pressure and bad PR as a result of it.
People should keep the pressure to see if they revert their absurd policy.
I have never been in that joint anyway nor I have plans to eat garbage any day soon.

 

[Old Dog]

Sorta appears that some here (not gonna mention any names Ed Ames) are content to see ordinary citizens deprived of their rights by corporate entities, just so long as those in law enforcement don't get any "special privileges." That kinda seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. This company does NOT want the general public carrying in its restaurants.

The way I see it, if these companies are trying to keep all guns out of their establishments, including those carried by LE personnel, they're already demonstrating even less regard to non-LE citizens -- and should be the target of righteous indignation and activism.

And for those who've never seen the inside of a Cheesecake Factory -- you've missed nothing.

 

[1stmarine]

Sorta appears that some here (not gonna mention any names Ed Ames) are content to see ordinary citizens deprived of their rights by corporate entities, just so long as those in law enforcement don't get any "special privileges." That kinda seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. This company does NOT want the general public carrying in its restaurants.

The way I see it, if these companies are trying to keep all guns out of their establishments, including those carried by LE personnel, they're already demonstrating even less regard to non-LE citizens -- and should be the target of righteous indignation and activism.

And for those who've never seen the inside of a Cheesecake Factory -- you've missed nothing.

I think officers should be allowed to carry anywhere. I think people with their carry permits should be allowed to carry anywhere too.
Business have the right to refuse entry to any one for any reason including people's defensive choices.
But they should provide security because if something happens and fail to defend people and people get hurt due to a bad policy and left defenseless there might be potential liabilities.
Also concealed is concealed right? ... but the easiest is never go eat in those places.

 

[Stony]

You're wrong, and anyway, this happened in Washington, not California. The officers involved are community corrections officers (parole officers in other states). They are authorized to carry on and off duty

I didn't imply this situation happened in California, nor did I take a stand for or against whatever the situation actually was. I just threw out a little experience I had many years ago for informative purposes and didn't think it would elicit any negative remarks....

 

[rtroha]

I have carried in Cheesecake Factory in the past and ignored the signs same as I always do.

Am I understanding you correctly? You ignore "no guns" signs even though they have the force of law in Ohio?

 

[Indawind]

Am I understanding you correctly? You ignore "no guns" signs even though they have the force of law in Ohio?

My understanding is the "Force of Law" is purely a Trespass if asked to leave and you don't. If you leave if ask it is not a Trespass as it was explained to me. (in Ohio)

 

[armoredman]

A few points, if I may? California was brought up - California STATE corrections officers are generally POST certified peace officers, don't know about the county/city level detention staff, which would mean the same type of carry authority as any other sworn officer. Also, the only correctional staff carrying at WORK at the prison are towers, perimeter patrol, and gate officers - handguns don't go inside the wire, ever.
Most parole officers I know are armed, because of what they do. 10 years ago, AZ parole and probation were NOT allowed to be armed on duty. We had a hard time keeping staff, wonder why...I do wonder why 6 CCOs and only three were armed...
I posted this with some people I know who will ensure that we don't ever bother these people with our presence, many other places out there who make us feel welcome, not a problem.

 

[Tcruse]

Serious question: Why do you feel this is a relevant topic for this forum?

This is a firearms forum, not a law enforcement forum. It would be one thing if you were trying to protest the company policy of not allowing carry by the general public, but that doesn't seem to be the complaint. The complaint is that an employee ticked off law enforcement.

I personally couldn't care less what some employee of a chain restaurant asks law enforcement personnel to do, as long as it doesn't raise my taxes. It doesn't generalize (getting the company to admit they shouldn't tick off law enforcement doesn't mean they will change their mind about me carrying) so it isn't a gun issue, and certainly isn't my issue.

OK, another serious question: Since when are law enforcement officers not a subset of legally armed citizens? My issue is that all legally armed citizens should be allowed to carry in such places and that a business that does need to be held accountable should crime happen in the business or in travel to/from the business and should loose the business of every gun owner and family member.

 

[Tcruse]

My understanding is the "Force of Law" is purely a Trespass if asked to leave and you don't. If you leave if ask it is not a Trespass as it was explained to me. (in Ohio)

The problem is that every state is a bit different, should police be called every police officer will have a slightly different take and certainly every DA will have a slightly different take. Certainly, we all need to be more careful to never get close to the legal line in cities where the Mayor is an anti-gun liberal.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

A new branch with an ill-informed manager who was likely schooled by corporate after the fact. They at least begrudgingly permit on duty LE to carry. For what it's worth I don't know too many C/O's who would be frequenting "The Cheesecake Factory" as a group while in uniform---it sounds like a place the cast from "The View" and it's devoted fans would hold court in.

 

[Ed Ames]

OK, another serious question: Since when are law enforcement officers not a subset of legally armed citizens?

Since the laws in just about every state began carving out exceptions for law enforcement personnel.

I am sure there was a time when a police officer was just another armed civilian (I don't know that there is a requirement that police officers be citizens, but in the US they are civilians) but now they can carry where the public cannot, often with types of weapons the public is not allowed to carry, often under different legal standards regarding use of force, and in general have become a distinct class under the law.

Law enforcement carry doesn't do a single thing for general public carry. They are completely separate discussions today.

 

[Ed Ames]

Double post

 

[hso]

If you read the original article you'll see that the Corp office apologized and claims the local management made a mistake.

The APPROPRIATE response from us is to thank the Corp office for correcting the error, but request that they allow legal carry per state regulations in all their stores and not just LE & Corrections. If you want to rant it won't accomplish anything, but if you make a brief rational appeal to the management of the company you might get their attention vs. just having your email or letter ignored as being from an angry crank.

 

[rtroha]

My understanding is the "Force of Law" is purely a Trespass if asked to leave and you don't. If you leave if ask it is not a Trespass as it was explained to me. (in Ohio)

In Ohio, being asked to leave is not necessary. The law says, "Except as otherwise provided in this division, a person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass..."

The sign has to be "conspicuous". The actual wording is, "may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises."

So if you see the sign and enter anyway, you have violated the law.