Corrosion Thoughts

[Steve S.]

I shot a deer on the morning of January 6th with my T/C .50 Pro Hunter (100 grains Pyrodex under a 250 Shockwave). The rifle was placed back into a soft case for travel and taken home. I removed the rifle from the case yesterday and cleaned it. I noted no rust or even any discoloration of any kind - the rifle cleaned up as usual to a bright and shiny bore.
In the past, I have waited (for different reasons) to clean this BP with again, no even minute signs of rust. I have read many accounts of horror stories about barrels using Pyrodex being savaged with rust formation in as little time as overnight.
I am wondering if the Pro Hunter barrel not reacting to the powder residue is because it is that well manufactured, if it is because it is SS or maybe as simple as it being stored in a soft case with no access to a supply of humidity - I do not know. Thoughts of those who know?

 

[damoc]

The biggest problem I have had with a uncleaned firearm is humidity/moisture keep it dry and its fine.

 

[dave951]

I'd say it's the SS that is the reason. Doesn't matter who made it, if it's normal barrel steel, Pryodex is H&ll on it. If you had done that with a conventional barrel, this would have turned out completely differently.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.dave951 pretty much said it best. I personally wont even accept free pyrodex, especially in my humid south texas location. Its horrific stuff in my opinion

 

[sparkyv]

Those are the worst kind of thoughts.

 

[rodwha]

Pyrodex ate my muzzleloader that was kept indoors overnight. But that’s not why I don’t like it. It creates a sticky kind of residue in both of my revolvers and has been shown to produce just average to exceptional velocities. I require just exceptional. I’ve also seen dismal results from older powder.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

That is also one reason i dont like pyrodex...it expires and its performance is all over the place even when using the same batch out of the same bottle. Its one reason why i prefer black powder, especially high performance black powder such as Olde Eynseford, Swiss, or my homemade...i always know what the performance will be so long as i do my part and store my powder well and keep it dry. Just about every sub expires...except for black mz that could become wetted and dried and apperently would still perform the same. Was very clean too. Now Alliant BlackMZ was a great sub...too bad its gone for good. Im glad i still have a small stash of it.

 

[woodnbow]

I just saw Black MZ for sale at Sportsman’s Warehouse. I haven’t seen any load data for revolvers. Have you used it in them?

 

[Steve S.]

I previously used 777 pellets with mediocre accuracy results (2”-4” groups at 100 yards). I then switched to Pyrodex pellets and my results were amazing (at least to me) - shot ragged holes at 100 yards (cleaning between shots) - very, very consistent so I have stuck with the working load. Btw, I never noted any corrosion with the 777 either - lucky so far I would guess.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.rodwha, i too dislike the sticky fouling of pyrodex. Seems the only way to truely get rid of in from the barrel and cylinders is with a brass/phospho brush. Nylon barrel brushes just wont do it...need to scrape it out with a good wire brush and a good cleaner. Ive heard some some people in dry climates have no issues with pyrodex fouling...so im assuming its the humidity that causes Pyrodex fouling to become sticky and even more so corrosive. I hear it makes good fertilizer, but so does cow poop...and id rather put cow poop in my guns before id use pyrodex again.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.woodnbow...i tried ordering so many times from sportsmans and it will only let you order one bottle. I called them and they said its because the warehouse only had 2 or less in stock so it only allows 1 can to ordered. I think the same can is still on sale to this day. I havent tried in a few days tho...i keep trying about twice a week lol

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Yep just tried to order it again...its a no go.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr. Steve S., a lot of other people also have had the same experience you have had. So its not luck or strange at all...but i think it has to do with factora such as humidity and how the powder was stored etc. For instance...a lot of shooters buy a box of pyrodex pellets and will have great performance and accuracy and then will store the remaining pellets for the next hunting season only to end up having squibs or very underpowered shots. But im assuming so many factors come in to play for them to last and one big factor is relative humidity....if its low enough all year then it may not matter how u store them so long as they are kept dry, dark, and cool. Other people will go through great lengths to seal their package of pyrodex pellets just to have them work months down the line. But for me...my humidity ruins pyrodex the second i open up the package due to the powder immediately obsorbing the high humidity causing the powder to already begin deteriorating...even if i were to re-package them and store them in a cool dry place it wouldnt matter as they have already obsorbed the humidity in the air like a sponge. But even if i use it straight out of the package before the humidity to cause deterioration of the powder...the fowling is what will be an even bigger issue. When mixed with humid air it makes a sticky fouling that is hard to get rid of completely as Mr.Rodwha stated. But i cant knock it all too much as others have not experienced any of the issues i have. So i guess its not all bad for everyone...just guaranteed very bad for me. As you can tell im bitter about pyrodex...its the only powder that ever really truely caused me issues after using it.

 

[TTv2]

I've had good results with Pyrodex in my cap and ball revolvers accuracy wise, but other than that the aftermath of shooting it isn't worth it. Triple 7 cleans up very well and I haven't had any corrosion issues with it like I have Pyrodex. I have a pound of it left and once it's gone, it's staying gone.

It's verging on a crime how most lgs exclusively stock Pyrodex because it's the cheapest stuff and refuse to ever stock real black powder or a better substitute. I can only imagine how many rookie hunters during muzzleloader season going into an LGS or sporting goods store and getting a muzzleloader, Pyrodex being the only powder/pellet available, and no nothings behind the country saying that substitutes like Pyrodex don't need to be cleaned like black powder does. Then the next season comes and the guy pulls out his muzzleloader he thought was fine and discovers that the bore looks like a sewer pipe inside.

Can't tell me it doesn't happen.

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

It must be where I live because Pyrodex works good for me. Even better than Black mz. With Black mz in my long guns I get hard spots along the bore after only two or three shots. When this happens my targets go to heck. Everything being the same with pyrodex I don't get this and can shoot a whole match without cleaning. I long ago developed good cleaning habits .Preserving the guns afterwards took some learnig though. I have been using home made percussion caps for many years and they can rust anything. Now I preserve with full strength Ballistal.I also follow up in a day or two with more of it. If I use real black I would have to clean between shots to keep going. I score targets for the match and don't have the time to shoot and clean both.
Black Jack Shellac

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr black jack shellac, do you make ur homemade percussion caps from roll caps or H-48 primer formula?

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

I used to use the role caps but they are now unavailable around here. I do now make mine from the FA-42 formula. The same as H-48 without the glass. They do work much better for me with pyrodex.I do use shellac or the duco cement for a binder. We have talked before. I am currently working on another formula. So far not so good but I have hopes
Black Jack Shellac

 

[Aim1]

This is why I switched to Blackhorn 209.

My new muzzleloader is the same as yours. I always clean it same day I fired it. But with Blackhorn 209 it's so much easier to clean. Just 2 wet patches of Montana Xtreme Bore Solvent, then 2 dry patches, then 2 wet patches of Montana Xtreme Bore Conditioner.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I foud i get even better performance than regular black powder but thats if i really compress. Its very fluffy and i can easilly get 30-34 grains in a stock .367 pietta chamber with a round ball. I weigh my charges which is about .85 grains to every grain volume in a standard bp measure. I can put an easy 30 grains with a 140 grain kaido conical in my .375 reamed pietta chambers. Its one powerful load

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Ah yes i remember you now mr.black jack shellac. I know we have spoken but i didnt remember what about. I use almost the same formula u do...only i add baking soda and sometimes aluminum powder to the mix and use Duco cement (mixed with acetone) as a binder and moisture proofer. Dont even see a need for broken glass...works fine as is in my percussion caps. I actually have a new sheet metal material that works better than .005 brass. I use .005 sheet copper from K&S metals. Works better than the brass or aluminum sheets and is easier on the cap maker than the brass. Its my all time fave "perfect" cap material. With the hobby lobby 40% off coupon its way cheaper too.
Here it is :
https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/k+s/k+s6020.htm

Btw is ur new formula corrosive as well?

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

You already have all you need to make this mix. If made as originally put down in my old book,I get only two out of ten to work. When they do work the power is real good. It's still a clorate prime mix so is corrosive. It's rather clean burning ,no red brick gunk. I don't know if we should go into this here. Perhaps e-mail or a pm? Can you reuse your copper cups?
Black Jack Shellac

 

[rodwha]

Mr.rodwha, i too dislike the sticky fouling of pyrodex. Seems the only way to truely get rid of in from the barrel and cylinders is with a brass/phospho brush. Nylon barrel brushes just wont do it...need to scrape it out with a good wire brush and a good cleaner. Ive heard some some people in dry climates have no issues with pyrodex fouling...so im assuming its the humidity that causes Pyrodex fouling to become sticky and even more so corrosive. I hear it makes good fertilizer, but so does cow poop...and id rather put cow poop in my guns before id use pyrodex again.

I actually never had issues cleaning up.

 

[rodwha]

You already have all you need to make this mix. If made as originally put down in my old book,I get only two out of ten to work. When they do work the power is real good. It's still a clorate prime mix so is corrosive. It's rather clean burning ,no red brick gunk. I don't know if we should go into this here. Perhaps e-mail or a pm? Can you reuse your copper cups?
Black Jack Shellac

I’d like to know more about this myself. I’d also like to know a bit more about making BP, though I’m quite hesitant as if something goes wrong it can be bad for not just myself. Maybe very small batches would make me feel better, but I’d not be comfortable potentially putting my family or neighbors at risk.

I much prefer to make what I can because I like being self sufficient and I like saving money. But I like being able to make superior products too, but most of all it’s so I'm not at the mercy of circumstances such as years back when caps and powder were hard to get for quite a while.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I did...but thats only because i allowed the damage to occur by not cleaning my gun immediately. After that i cleaned immediately and im sure just patches or at most a nylon brush would have been enough...but i still went at it with a brass brush lol. I was very careful to clean the gun extra well. The time the fouling was left to sit for 13 houra after shooting i ended up with rust that wouldnt go away after a few couple days of good cleaning. Learned my lesson well.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hey Woodnbow, l have used Black MZ in my revolvers, I really like it. It shoots clean, makes smoke though not as energetic as other powder substitutes. At longer ranges I have compensate a bit more. I would like to know why Alliant brings it out and then quits making it.