Couple new ..38 S&Ws

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Gordon

Gordon

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Spring has sprung, I finally found a near perfect except for a couple freckles in the nickel Third Model three inch New Departure. I love the locking latch design and execution , internal parts are little jewels of machining. It likes my stash of Peters .38 S&W which I gave it a few cylinders of, hits point of aim at 15 yards and gave 720 fps. I am not gonna pound much ammo thru this 120 year old reliable companion. Paid $315 delivered. Also last month finally found a .38 S&W chambered old West German Derringer . Three digit first import of them from Hi Hunter in 50s. Soon after we're only made in .38 special. It is high quality and matches the finish wear to the S&W New Departure Safety Hammerless.
 

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My understanding is that 38 S&W was considered so pleasant to shoot, and so accurate, that its ballistics were copied for the 38 Special 148 grain target wadcutter round. To me, that would be high praise.
 
Monac said:
My understanding is that 38 S&W was considered so pleasant to shoot, and so accurate, that its ballistics were copied for the 38 Special 148 grain target wadcutter round. To me, that would be high praise.
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38S&W can be very pleasant to shoot and allows very rapid return to POA after each shot.
 
Elmer KEITH said the .38 S&W was accurate enough for him to win many bets. The problem is that it is a very weak round, about equal to the .38 Long Colt, which performed so badly for the army and marines in the Philippines that they would only buy a .45 afterwards.
It was used by the British during WW II, but I never heard of it distinguishing itself the way the .45ACP did in the Pacific campaigns.

Jim
 
jar said:
38S&W can be very pleasant to shoot and allows very rapid return to POA after each shot.
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The derringer is indeed, but shoots both barrels together and 10" high at 7 yards! The Lemon Squeezer is right on and good sight picture for me at 15 yards and I get great groups BUT the recoil is harsh ! I don't get it really , derringer weighs 13 .oz and S&W 19 .0z . I chronographed those old Peters rounds out of the Derringer at 680 FPS and the S&W at 720 FPS . The New Departure feels like my S&W 442 with +P 158 grain loads ! Really slaps, harder than my Iver Johnson Viking snubs !
 
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Gordon said:
The derringer is indeed, but shoots both barrels together and 10" high at 7 yards! The Lemon Squeezer is right on and good sight picture for me at 15 yards and I get great groups BUT the recoil is harsh ! I don't get it really , derringer weighs 13 .oz and S&W 19 .0z . I chronographed those old Peters rounds out of the Derringer at 680 FPS and the S&W at 720 FPS . The New Departure feels like my S&W 442 with +P 158 grain loads ! Really slaps, harder than my Iver Johnson Viking snubs !
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Is that derringer supposed to unload both barrels simultaneously, or is it broke?

I had a .38spl Cobra derringer-briefly. Ouch.
 
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No it fires one at a time, just as it should. Every Remington model 2 type derringer shot high I've had over the years, including originals. What is remarkable to me is the whack the S&W 3" barrel Safety Hammerless gives me, AND the potency of the 60 year old Peters cartridges I have 240 left . :)
 
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Gordon said:
No it fires one at a time, just as it should. Every Remington model 2 type derringer shot high I've had over the years, including originals. What is remarkable to me is the whack the S&W 3" barrel Safety Hammerless gives me, AND the potency of the 60 year old Peters cartridges I have 240 left . :)
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Ohhhhhhh, you meant they GROUP together and high- I thought you meant both barrels were discharging together! Haha.
I imagine the .38S&W is about the perfect derringer cartridge. Is it ballistically similiar to the .41 Rimfire?

Ive also shot .22 Mag. Derringers, and they certainly produced an impressive flash, but I wouldnt want to bet on their stopping power.
 
Well I actually carried a .41 derringer in the 4th most dangerous city in the US , fotr about 5 years years ith Navy Arms .41 ammo which at tight bored ( THATS THE SECRET) derringer like I got from the last Salinas Cowboy , It did about 650 FPS and went THRU a 2x4 of redwood at 20 feet . Sooooo I went with it with Uberti Maverick .45 Colt derringer after that before deciding a 442 .38 spl is actually "better" for deep carry . Now I am back with rthe .38 S&W , sure I am going for CNS shots but at my age any deep meat hit is ok by me , I'll slug it out the rest of the way :)
 
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NIGHTLORD40K said:
Ohhhhhhh, you meant they GROUP together and high- I thought you meant both barrels were discharging together! Haha.
I imagine the .38S&W is about the perfect derringer cartridge. Is it ballistically similiar to the .41 Rimfire?

Ive also shot .22 Mag. Derringers, and they certainly produced an impressive flash, but I wouldnt want to bet on their stopping power.
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My understanding is that 38 S&W is like the thunderbolt of Zeus compared to 41 Short Rimfire:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.41_Short

Although according to the above article, there is some dispute about that.

PS - There is a typo in this sentence of the above article: "He [Holt Bodinson] states that his testing showed the 130 grain bullet traveled at 685 feet per second (209 m/s) so producing 111 foot-pounds force (150 J) of energy"

If you do the calculation, a 130 grain bullet at 685 fps possesses 135 foot-pounds of kinetic energy. The 111 foot-pound figure is also used for the Brazilian 41 rimfire load, which is correct for its velocity of 621 fps.

I would have thought that if 41 Short Rimfire had as much kinetic energy as 32 S&W Long (100-120 foot-pounds) it would have survived much longer in small defensive pistols than it actually did.
 
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That modern ballistic test totally conforms with my tests of my Model 95 in .41 short with the Navy Arms Brazilian loads of the 1980 s . The .38 S&W Derringer produces exactly the same velocity but wit a 20 grain heavier bullet.
 
A 1963 Iver Johnson Trailsman 66 snub in .38 S&W . These are built like tanks with good ma hined heavy parts, the 5th generation top latch is massive compared to earlier ones. The Sights are express style with front micro elevation and rear windage big V. I have two, like new this one has a hammer firing pin, got a couple year newer one with transfer bar. The holster is an Old Lawrence cross draw made for the gun, very slick old school Roscoe :) IMG_20190512_164106758.jpg
 
There's a book by Masaad Ayoob, one of two he wrote titled something like "The World's Greatest Handguns", in which he includes an interview he did with Warren Center of Thompson-Center Contender fame. Center remarks on being involved with the design of this model of Iver Johnson. They were made in 38 S&W, 32 Long (still a 5 shot like the 38 S&W, oddly) and 22. I had one of the 22s for a while. Unfortunately, while it handled well, the 8-shot cylinder ratchet did not work well, and give constant misfires. The 5-shot version should be much better, I would think.
 
Gordon said:
I love the locking latch design and execution
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There were four different styles of locking latches on that model.

The First Model had a Z-Bar, that had to be pushed sideways to open the gun. Serial numbers ran from 1-5250 manufactured circa 1887.

The Second Model latch was pushed down to open the gun. This type was fitted to the contour of the frame. Serial numbers ran from 5251 through 42483, manufactured from 1887 through 1890.

The Third Model latch was also pushed down to open, this type protruded above the gun when the action was closed. Serial numbers ran from 42484 through 116002. Manufactured from circa 1890 through 1898.

The Fourth and Fifth Models had a T shaped latch that was lifted to open the gun. Fourth Model serial numbers range from 116003 roughly through 220000. Manufactured from 1898 through 1907. Fifth Model serial numbers ran from 220000 through about 261493. Manufactured from 1907 through 1940. The Fourth Model had a pinned front sight, the front sight was usually forged integral with the barrel on the Fifth Model.

Which style do you have?
 
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