Couple of questions???

[HuntCast]

I've read through the "Black Powder Essentials" threads...... GREAT INFO! but I still have a couple things I'm not clear on.
First, for an 1851 Navy in .44. What size ball should I look for when I go to Gander Mountain tomorrow???
Second........ lubricating the ball.... do you actually apply Crisco to the ball, and then put some in the chamber after loading??? What exactly am I doing with the Crisco???

Thanks in advance,
Joe

 

[dwave]

I would be looking for a .454 RB myself, but my gun is a .44 is a Remington. .451s should work.

As far as the Crisco goes, you seat the ball first, then place it over the ball.

EDIT: When you seat the ball, it should shave off a lead ring, if it doesn't, then go with a larger RB, IE if a .451 doesn't shave a ring, try .454.

 

[Zeke/PA]

The Crisco over the chamber mouth is meant to prevent a crossfire and also to keep the fouling soft. You should see a ring of shaved lead when seating a properly fitted round ball.
Have Fun.
Zeke

 

[ccyooper]

...and before you load,put a dab of lube on the cylinder's arbor. That will help prevent the thing from seizing up with fouling....

 

[Ed Gallop]

44-40 Winchester Center Fire peacemaker

I use a .454 ball in my 44 because it shaves off a complete ring of lead. The .451 only shaves off a partial ring. I either use Wonder Wads (prelubed patch) between the powder and the ball or grease with Bore Butter after loading .451 balls just to be sure. I also pay more for smoother balls so no gaps are present. I used to grease all cylinders but I violate the rules sometimes because I don't feel it is necessary to prevent crossfires. Guess I shouldn't be doing it even though I've never had a problem after thousands of rounds. Don't know anyone else that has either, at least through the loading end of the cylinder. Ed.

 

[mykeal]

dwave is on the mark

I use .451 balls in all my .44's and get a good ring; on the other hand, .454 balls also work just fine. I am not a good enough shot to tell a significant difference in accuracy. dwave's advice on the lead ring is good advice and should guide you. Try both and see what your gun likes best.

Like Ed Gallop I use lubed wads between the ball and powder rather than covering the ball with Crisco. I used to do that but I'm lazier in my old age.

Unlike Ed I have witnessed a chain fire, two in fact. Both many years ago; fortunately, neither hurt anybody, although I suspect some laundering was in order. Pretty impressive and very scary.

 

[DixieTexian]

I don't have the experience to back this up, but they say that most chain fires are due to improperly fitting caps falling off while firing. That said, if our chamber mouthse are smaller than the inside walls of your chamber, you can get a chain fire too. I bought my bp gun at a Gander Mountain in Texas, and all they had was .451 balls, so I waited and got some from a local place. Some times I cheat and instead of lubing over the top of each ball, I just stick some in the breach end of he barrel before I put the cylinder back in. I don't know yet if this works better or just as good, but they say that after the first shot, lube doesn't do a whole lot.

 

[hildo]

I use .457 balls in all my revolvers.
Since the lead ball is made of pure lead, it is very soft and ramming it into the cylinder is no problem. It should fit nice and tight. Important is it fits nice and tight, If you can push it into the cylinder with your finger it's too small. It is also said a larger ball gives more area in contact with the rifling and thus better accuracy.
Every shot should be lubed to keep blackpowder residue soft, this will keep you shooting longer with more consistent accuracy. A lube pill of beeswax, crisco or so can be fitted directly between the ball and the powder.
This works even better was aid on THR by many members, and I found out this to be true last week.
36 shots with the Walker Colt and no problems. I could have shot another 36 or more I guess, but ran out of time.
For the lubepill I use 25% beeswax, 25% peanut oil (heat resistant), 25% thick white grease for frying french fries and 25% real soap. Just melt it all together and stand back. Soap smells really, really fresh when melted . Soap is als a base for many roller bearing greases I heard. Washes your barrel while shooting.
Maybe someone disagrees or has another opinion using soap? I never heard of it been used before as an ingredient on THR.

 

[DaveP (UK)]

From the little I can recall of Chemistry lessons at school soap is made by combining fats with an alkali and most of the bulk of the finished product comes from the fat and the water content. Flavoured too? Sounds ideal - do you really need the beeswax etc?

I cant really see a downside. If it works for you - call it a result!
I'm not asking this out of disapproval, but your post reads as if you got the general idea of using lube pills from this site. What inspired you to add soap to the brew?

 

[Afy]

What kind of soap? Also how do you melt it?

I might try your recipie...

I just mix up a bunch of Crisco, Parafin and Beeswax for the pills...

In terms of ball sizes...
The Walker seems to prefer .457, the Remmi .454 and the 1860 Army .450

 

[hildo]

The idea for lubepills I got from THR.
Beeswax and white frying fat (don't know the english name) was used on the top of the bullet by the guys at my shooting club since the 1970's. As far as I know it was never used between the bullet and the powder.
The lube pills from Rifle (THR member) are made of beeswax, parafin and mutton tallow. Since sheep fat is not that easy to be had at the supermarket I opted for the proven white frying fat but had no beeswax at that time.

On a Dutch BP forum a simular topic was opened where a guy used beeswax as a filler between the powder and bullet of a 45/70 cartridge. He found it to have better (cleaner) results than any other regular filler like carton, coffee and such.
Another Durch member send me a PM with his BP lube ingredients, it included soap. He told me to use 'real' soap, the oldfashioned type, beeswax, peanut oil and Molykote (a high pressure grease). Since molykote is a petroleum based product I used white frying fat instead, 25% of each and melted / boiled it all together in a pan. Watch out with it, it will boil over like milk, keep sturring it!
I am not saying that the ingredients that I use is better than anybody elses. I don't know since this was the first time I did lubepill shooting and have no other experience with lube but the white frying grease I used to smear on top of the roundball. My lubepills beat the white frying grease though.

Check out he barrel of my Walker after 36 shots. Maybe it was the soap (Sunlight, parfumed with citronellol), maybe not but these are the freshed smelling lube pills for sure!

 

[Steve499]

An old goat like me needs all the fresh smelling stuff I can get!

Steve

 

[Bezoar]

You dont need to use a big wad of crisco or grease on top of your loaded chambers as research, available upon the internet to anyone with google or yahoo search, proves that two things create chain fires:
improperly sized balls and loose fitting caps.

SO as long as you have properly fitted percussion caps and use balls that seat with a ring of lead, your good to go. Reading civil war reinactment sights will teach you that when you fire the first shot with crisco covered cylinders, the muzzle flash from the first shot blows the crisco on the other cylinders all over the place.....

But the crisco and other lubes will help with fouling and accuracy to. Seems the best bet is to melt bees wax in a pan to make a real thin layer, that you punch out with an apropriately sized metal tube or old cartridge case. With those grease cookies just put one on top of each fully seated projectile and mush down with a figner or the rammer if you want.

 

[rifle]

Lube Pills (under the balls) made of equal amounts bees wax-paraffin wax-mutton tallow will keep a barrel as clean as Hildo's barrel pic fer over two hundred shots. Done it many times. I've found that bees wax-paraffin wax and lubes like lard,olive oil,crisco,ect.ect. work pretty dang good as long as the lube pill is under the balls. Always in a recipe of equal amounts. Soap doesn't seem to be a big help in my recipe. I tries Murphy's and Castile Soap(mix of lots of exotic oils like spearmint oil,jojoba oil,ect ect.) and they left the barrel with less shiny than the mix without soap but no real build up of fouling in the barrel grooves. just a kinda black powdery thin coating. In cold weather bump up the amount of lube compared to the waxes in the recipe.

 

[dwave]

100 shots with lube pills

Here is a review that I made a few weeks back, some nice information in it. I used Crisco and Beeswax 50/50. Worked good with 777, but better with the real deal, Goex BP.

It also has some pics of a lube pill cutter made by Oldelm.

 

[DaveP (UK)]

Its great to discover that you could use such a wide range of ingredients!

 

[hildo]

Hi Rifle.
I guess you are the expert on lube pill manufacturing here. I will still shoot some more with my ingredients (including the soap) with another BP brand (Swiss this time) and see if I can see any difference with my regular cheaper BP (Explosia).
After that I think it is best to go with the tested to perfection 'Rifle Lube Pills'.
It's just fun to experiment.
I have cut my lube pills from a stick which was cast in the barrel of my Walker, like Pohill (THR member) did.
Next thing I will make a lube pill cutter from a empty .45 case and a piece of thicker waterpipe. Seen that here too.
Have learned a lot on The High Road, and not about to stop yet.
Thanks to all!

 

[mec]

"It's just fun to experiment"

whatevery you're doing works! That is a clean walker barrel. The .44 Navies are made by Pietta and the chamber and bore measurements are tight. .451 balls are generally just fine. 454s will work perfectly too. You probably don't Need .457s but they also do fine. If your revolver has a brass frame, you might want to avoid the .457s to keep seating pressure load. Excess lever pressure could contribute to stretching the frame. I suspect your white cooking grease is the same as crisco.