someguy2800
Member
I’d give it try for $450. Especially a wood stocked one. They going rate here is about 600-700 used and 800 new. Never shopped online for one.
Custom Mini-14 vs Piston AR15?
- Thread starter valnar
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I’d give it try for $450. Especially a wood stocked one. They going rate here is about 600-700 used and 800 new. Never shopped online for one.
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Kame B.
Guest
Well I'm just a refinisher, that has to pay the bills on my shop and takes care of the kids, dont have to worry about the wife since she left years ago. But never the less I have responsibilities just like you guys, so I make damn sure my firearms pay me back. Plus I want my kids to have something nice when I'm gone, you should see my other rifles. The Mini is just the tip, its laughable that conversations like AR vs Mini even goes on.
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Kame B.
Guest
Card stacking... whatever dude, those cast investment receivers will last forever, you dont need a brand new Mini 14 to do what I did today. Get over yourself, you have no idea what you are talking about. Plus the Shilen barrels are "ready to install" barrels. They are already crowned with finished threaded chambers. It was only 3 years ago when I got the old barrel screwed off the new one screwed on and drilled out the the port hole for the gas bushing. That small operation does not cost an arm and a leg. Seriously, do some research before opening your mouth
Varminterror
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I haven’t seen a finished Shilen drop in go for $350 in a decade. I’ll ask about current pricing, they quoted me today for a 6 creed AR-10 and 6 creed Striker barrel. Both were more than $350.
I’d also not pay myself on the back for even an $800 rifle which spat 1.3” groups. Especially with a Shilen barrel out front!
I’d also not pay myself on the back for even an $800 rifle which spat 1.3” groups. Especially with a Shilen barrel out front!
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Kame B.
Guest
Am I being trolled? Is this a joke? You can keep squatting out that 1.3inch group but I know what my rifle can do and the meat it has provided.
And dude you have the internet just the same as I do, you can find the prices on anything: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...gton-1-in-9-twist-20-chrome-moly-in-the-white
Oh and look the AR drop in's are about $125 more than the Mini chrome molly. Hmmmmmm
http://www.shilen.com/pricesRifleBarrels.html
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Kame B.
Guest
Why not have them both?
GunnyUSMC
Member
I think you should sit down for a minute before your blood pressure gets to high.
If I remember right the OP wasn’t looking for a fight over the two platforms. You seem to be making this personal.
No one put your gun down. They just stated that at today’s prices that it would be much more costly to build a Mini 14 like yours.
You seem to be offended, but you are the one that has told members that they don’t know what they are talking about and even called one or two a lyre. This is The High Road, not one of those other forums where you have to be rude to others just to get your point across.
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Kame B.
Guest
Sorry that I'm not politically correct enough for you folk, I deal with facts more than I do politeness. Because the one thing you got wrong is that I can replicate the price and my mini at today's cost. That is what you people are not getting. And I'm done with all this crap.
Wow, I go to work and 4 pages later...
I don't subscribe to this theory. The 1911 folks say the same thing. Honestly in any TEOTWAWKI scenario, you aren't ordering parts from UPS or FedEx to fix zilch. You're dumping your gun and grabbing the other guy's (presumably DI) AR15. But for the other 99.9999% of the time...meh.
I know that a piston AR15 is easier to clean and you don't have to do it as often. I've had access to one via a friend. I've not seen a single expert or article that disagrees with that.
Also, a particular system is either inherently good or not. The 50 years of AR15 history is irrelevant. This is simple logic vs emotion and is easy to check yourself -- If Stoner designed the AR15 to be a piston and somebody came along 40 years later with a DI design, you'd scream the same thing in reverse. "What would we want a DI design for?" It's either good or bad, or both, with different variations on the specifics. ie. Nobody yelled at Kalashnikov that his AK47 wasn't direct impingement.
/rant over
That being said, thanks for the advice. I think I will forgo the Mini-14 for now. I appreciate the comments everyone.
cheygriz
member
I think we could do with less name-calling and insults.
If you like minis, buy one. I wouldn't have another mini as a gift. But that's just me. Your money, your choice.
If you like minis, buy one. I wouldn't have another mini as a gift. But that's just me. Your money, your choice.
Ruger had the small 5.56 caliber market with the Mini 14 in 1979 and blew it. If they would of upgraded the Mini with a heavier barrel and would of kept the folding stock, the Mini would still be the king today. Putting a 16" stainless Mini in a factory folding stock today and Ruger could get a big chunk of that market back. But, it appears they are not interested. ASI can get you close if you still want one.
kwg
Varminterror
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More card stacking. It’s funny how some folks will let their subjective bias occlude objective facts from their sight. $260 for a short chambered barrel in the white isn’t a drop in barrel. It’s a barrel, but it’s finish chambering for headspacing and whatever finishing you decide to add. Ain’t getting that all done for $90 in 2018, and not many of us are still set up to hot blue at home.
I’m glad you’re happy with your rifle, and I do appreciate that you have taken the time to clarify the used prices, non-inflation corrected prices from 20yrs ago, and everything which has gone into your 1.3moa rifle. It does seem you were bothered by my questions, but the other readers and the OP considering this comparison are surely benefited to hear how much it takes to get a Mini to shoot to even mediocre standards.
I’ve never been satisfied with a 1.3moa rifle, certainly not for $800-1200. Gimme a $250-300 barrel from a dozen makers, a $40 Nordic float tube (or any other clearance rack fft), a JP spring kit, a set screw, and about 6hrs and I’d consider it a safe bet to make any used $300 AR carbine and deliver sub-MOA to 1moa groups with a 50 vmax over 27.5grn Varget. Knowing nothing else about the rifle. If it were as cheap and easy as @Kame B. is stating, fewer of us would have given up on repeating the effort and more of us would still be doing it. My confidence in slapping a good barrel in an AR and shooting small groups is based on doing it a few hundred times in the last 20yrs. I apprenticed under a garandsmith when I first started, before he passed, and I do love the action, but facts are facts. The garands and M1a’s lost out to AR-10’s and even AR-15’s for performance in a level playing field, and the Mini’s along with them.
They’re not the “can’t hit the broadside of a barn from inside it” rifles some guys tout them to be, but they’re a long ways behind an AR in every way but political acceptance.
I’m glad you’re happy with your rifle, and I do appreciate that you have taken the time to clarify the used prices, non-inflation corrected prices from 20yrs ago, and everything which has gone into your 1.3moa rifle. It does seem you were bothered by my questions, but the other readers and the OP considering this comparison are surely benefited to hear how much it takes to get a Mini to shoot to even mediocre standards.
I’ve never been satisfied with a 1.3moa rifle, certainly not for $800-1200. Gimme a $250-300 barrel from a dozen makers, a $40 Nordic float tube (or any other clearance rack fft), a JP spring kit, a set screw, and about 6hrs and I’d consider it a safe bet to make any used $300 AR carbine and deliver sub-MOA to 1moa groups with a 50 vmax over 27.5grn Varget. Knowing nothing else about the rifle. If it were as cheap and easy as @Kame B. is stating, fewer of us would have given up on repeating the effort and more of us would still be doing it. My confidence in slapping a good barrel in an AR and shooting small groups is based on doing it a few hundred times in the last 20yrs. I apprenticed under a garandsmith when I first started, before he passed, and I do love the action, but facts are facts. The garands and M1a’s lost out to AR-10’s and even AR-15’s for performance in a level playing field, and the Mini’s along with them.
They’re not the “can’t hit the broadside of a barn from inside it” rifles some guys tout them to be, but they’re a long ways behind an AR in every way but political acceptance.
IndianaBoy
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That's because of relative scarcity. Which is not indicative of the actual shooting properties of the firearms.
These threads tend to get a bit heated, it always starts out with 15 folks saying the mini isn't worth the money, and doesn't really have a place in todays market, and then some folks say they like them anyway and have had some decent accuracy unlike they're commonly supposed to have, then the other folks say "nah you're just kidding yourself with that overpriced garbage", and then the mini folks get their fur rubbed the wrong way and its off to the races.
Mini fans aren't nearly as outspoken or rude when everyone takes a dump on their rifle as when someone says something even slightly negative about an AR, doesn't make it ok, but you AR folks should learn to take a step back and realize some folks just like different designs for their own reasons regardless of any real, subjective, or perceived disadvantages.
There are also plenty of other 5.56 designs out there, mostly piston, that don't have the AR's absurdly low build cost, or accuracy, they don't typically get the same extent of hate the mini does for some reason though, its kinda weird.
OP, glad you've made a decision, I just recently put together an AR with one of the Taiwanese Wolf A1 piston uppers, didn't break the bank, and seems to work well enough so far.
Mini fans aren't nearly as outspoken or rude when everyone takes a dump on their rifle as when someone says something even slightly negative about an AR, doesn't make it ok, but you AR folks should learn to take a step back and realize some folks just like different designs for their own reasons regardless of any real, subjective, or perceived disadvantages.
There are also plenty of other 5.56 designs out there, mostly piston, that don't have the AR's absurdly low build cost, or accuracy, they don't typically get the same extent of hate the mini does for some reason though, its kinda weird.
OP, glad you've made a decision, I just recently put together an AR with one of the Taiwanese Wolf A1 piston uppers, didn't break the bank, and seems to work well enough so far.
IndianaBoy
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I haven't personally owned a long stroke piston based AR-15. I think it is a step backwards to shoehorn a long stroke piston onto a rifle that was designed for the piston to be contained within the bolt carrier. It removes a refinement of the design, an improvement that improves accuracy, reduces weight, and reduces the number of moving parts.
There is much discussion about an AR needing to be white glove clean to function reliably. This I have found, is not true.
For the $1800 cost of that PWS rifle, you could buy a DI rifle from JP Rifles or a custom rifle with a Krieger barrel that you could be certain would turn in MOA or smaller groups. The most recent winner of the Precision Rifle Series Gas Gun division is using a LRP-07 from JP rifles.
I built my own Gas Gun competition rifle with a mixture of Mega, JP and LaRue parts, and came in WELL under $1800 for the base rifle.
So far it is turning in sub MOA groups with 69gr SMK and 73gr Hornady ELD but I am still working on load development.
CoalTrain49
Member
In a few more years the AR will be relegated to history much like the 03A3, the Garand and the M-14. Nobody will want an AR because they just won't be tactical enough, accurate enough, LRP enough or cool enough. The new piston rifle with it's new cartridge will be a must have rifle even in it's civilian configuration. Ringing steel at 1000 yards will become an everyday occurance.
If I want an AR I'll just go down to the LGS and buy a used one for three fiddy.
$1250 for an AR? You have got to be joking.
If I want an AR I'll just go down to the LGS and buy a used one for three fiddy.
$1250 for an AR? You have got to be joking.
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GunnyUSMC
Member
That $1250 was to customize a Mini 14.
If the AR goes the way of the 03A3 and the M1 Garand, you should buy one now before the price goes up. Both the 03A3 and M1 Garands are very popular these days.
CoalTrain49
Member
I have a 43 Inland carbine. It's mostly old guys that shoot that old military hardware. Neither the 03A3 or the Garand were ever reproduced for the civilian market that I'm aware of. The popularity I believe is in the fact that they are military surplus. I just ordered a 1911 from CMP because I wanted a MS 1911. I have lots of other 1911's but I don't have a MS 1911. Would I pay $1100 for a 1911 that wasn't MS? Nope. The last 1911 Colt I bought used costs me $450, shoots just fine.
There's millions of AR 15's out there and none of them will ever be military surplus. The market has tanked already.
And I wouldn't pay $1250 to get a Mini to 1 MOA either. I just bought a ranch rifle about 3 weeks ago. The gas bushing has been replaced and the trigger group went down to AS last week. I don't expect it will ever be anything but a 2 MOA rifle but that's what carbines usually are..... if you're lucky.
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NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Both the '03 and Garand were commercially copied by firms like Federal Ordnance and Springfield Inc, with various levels of quality. The M1 carbine has been copied by literally dozens of manufacturers, notably Universal Firearms, Iver Johnson, and Auto Ordnance.
If the prices on ARs skyrocket, it will be due to actual or perceived regulatory action, not because of any shortage of guns.
If my initial post implied any hate for ANY of these platforms, that was not my intent. I like 'em all!
I was just giving my 2 cents with my own experience owning and shooting all these guns. Some are better at certain roles than others and you can spend as much as you want on your guns to try to make them more accurate, its your money.
I value reliability and supportability with ammo and parts above MOA performance in a semi auto battle rifle- I have plenty of MOA bolt guns for the marksman/ sniper role, but that's just me.
Hand me an AR, Mini, AK, heck a Garand- and show me where the enemy is. I'm good to go with any of them.
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CoalTrain49
Member
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
This thread has pretty much gone the way of the previous gazillion threads on this comparison. Enough for now. I'm sure that it will show up again, so anybody who missed out here will have another shot at it.
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