Cylinder Swapping?

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Panzerschwein

Panzerschwein

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Hey everyone!

We've all know that the 1858 Remington New Model Army's cylinder can be quickly removed and replaced, and that one can have several pre loaded cylinders on there person and when the gun runs empty, just swap the cylinder to reload 6 fresh rounds. Clint Eastwood does this in the movie Pale Rider:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQuKXGOoqUc

I have heard that soldiers in the Civil War coveted the Remington as they could quickly reload the gun in this manner, and that it was also popular for gunfighters out west to do. But...

Was this really the case?

I've read some conflicting reports on this. Some day that it was done and all of the above actually happened, while others say that is mostly a modern invention rooted in fantasy and the most people carried more than one (sometimes numerous) cap and ball revolvers when more firepower was needed thus negating a reload during combat.

So, what do you know about this cylinder swapping business with the Remington New Model Army? Was it actually common for shooters to carry spare cylinders for reloading, or is this just not the way it was done? I'm hoping to shed some light on this issue as I constantly hear it was done but it is also routinely refuted by others.

Thanks! :D
 
I think/know it was possible but not likely done

spare cyl,s would have been very expensive and probably needed at least some work to make them interchangeable.

and how many years is it between the 1858 being available and widespread
to when the metalic cartridge became popular?

I think if the metalic cartridge took longer to become available the 58 easy replaceable cyl
may have became market dominant
 
Those thread weren't very useful. One also had a couple broken links in it.

I'm wanting to know if this was HISTORICALLY done, as in if Civil War soldiers or Old West gunfighters etc. did it in REAL LIFE.
 
Deja vu...yet again regarding this topic.

I will agree that cylinder swapping of Remingtons was not likely ever done...they didnt even come with spare cylinders. And it might have been considered bad form to snag an extra Rem cylinder from a working gun on the battlefield to have an extra for yourself.

The only documented use of combat use of revolvers using multiple cylinders was by Capt. Jack Hays and his company of Texas Rangers using Patersons during fights with the Comanche in the mid 1840s in the Texas Hill Country. Hays acquired 180 Patersons from thr Texas Navy that came with 2 cylinders each with the same sn as the gun, both of which were fitted to that particular gun. These Patersons were not equipped with loading levers and had to be disassembled for reloading. The spare cylinder was precharged for quick reloads. This is described in several Ranger chronicles as well as my gggpaws Ranger memoirs from the 1840s.
 
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I dunno, but I really like this feature of my Remmy when I'm shooting my conversion cylinder and have to stuff more rounds in it. :D I have two spare cap and ball cylinders for it just because they were on sale for 40 bucks at Cabelas and I wanted 'em. I don't use 'em, just as easy to reload the cylinder in the gun when I'm plinking and, well, I don't carry the gun concealed, prefer my DA revolvers or autos.
 
I have read accounts of Confederate soldiers carrying as many as 4 complete revolvers on their person and mount. Probably the extras came from battlefield pickups and didn't have to be the same caliber since they had complete guns not just cylinders.
 
"I'm wanting to know if this was HISTORICALLY done, as in if Civil War soldiers or Old West gunfighters etc. did it in REAL LIFE."


In short, the concise version of the accepted answer is "No".


Willie

.
 
No, as a rule it was not done, only in the movies and 10 cent novels. In fact, the only historical account I have ever read of it being done is the one referring to Hayes and the Indian fight ( and the facts to that fight seem to be overblown and expanded, as many old accounts were ) Civil war soldier's didn't carry anything extra, not even the officers. Officers, for the most part simply waved their pistols/swords in the air, the grunts were restricted to the amount of ammo they carried ( they did try and sneak in a little extra ). The confederates raiders did carry several extra pistols, but never in any account have I read they carried extra cylinders. In fact, extra cylinders were not available and to have a spare cylinder meant another gun would have been disabled. Did it happen, perhaps once or twice, ( and I doubt that ), but it was never an established practice.:banghead:
 
Even in the movie, when Clint Eastwood needed to finish off John Russell, the script writers had him draw a second revolver. Much faster than trying to juggle a cylinder swap with someone wanting to kill you.
 
Notice in Pale Rider, his cylinders have cartridges in 'em. Well, DUH, they're movie blanks. Suppose it'd be tough to shoot cap and ball blanks, but when they show the close up of him switching cylinders in his belt during the big gunfight at the end, they COULD have shown cap and ball cylinders in his belt. Well, ya know, it wasn't historically correct anyway and, well, it's Hollywood fiction. But, I still like the movie. :D
 
MCgunner said:
Notice in Pale Rider, his cylinders have cartridges in 'em. Well, DUH, they're movie blanks. Suppose it'd be tough to shoot cap and ball blanks, but when they show the close up of him switching cylinders in his belt during the big gunfight at the end, they COULD have shown cap and ball cylinders in his belt. Well, ya know, it wasn't historically correct anyway and, well, it's Hollywood fiction. But, I still like the movie. :D
Click to expand...
And I still like my extra cylinders and carry them in belt pouches. My extra 12 shots are way faster than regular loading.
 
swapping

if I had a wife I would swap mine with you for another revolver....
Some civil war soldiers were issued revolvers, mostly officers though and cannoneers.
They were also issued cylinder pouches. One would then presume at times they would swap out a freshly loaded cylinder.
And as is usually the case, this would of carried over to the civilian market too.
But as a common thing? Probably not.
Most civilians carried firearms as a daily necessity (hunting, snake protection, dispatch an injured cow etc) It was just a daily tool.
If you watch closely. In Pale Rider his holders are stitched to his belt and his revolvers have the cartridge conversions.
When he gets gunbelt from safety deposit, cartridges are in the loops.
When changing look close you can see cartridge ends not nipples.
And again in the cafe shootout the bad boys are digging cartridges from their pockets.

towards bottom of this link army heritage they talk of spare cylinders, but not the pouch
https://www.armyheritage.org/educat...rmation/soldier-stories/285-civilwarequipment
 
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One of the better books on frontier gun fighting is Great Gunfighters of the Kansas Cowtowns 1867 - 1886 by Nyle Miller and Joseph Snell. It's mostly restricted to Kansas during those years with about 90% of the material duplicated from newspaper reports of the day. Other similar books do much the same covering Quantrill's Guerrillas. Last but not least they're many period photographs that are available.

These sources. and others often mention the practice of carrying many extra pistols on or about the body, but none I've read mention cylinder-swapping except the one in Texas previously mentioned.

I suspect that some cylinder swapping happened because finding early revolvers with a mis-matched number on the cylinder is not unusual; but the practice was largely invented in Hollywood, and not the Western Frontier.
 
DD4, I have never seen a Union nor Confederate cylinder pouch , do you happen to have a photo or site to reference, I would really like to see one. Even Col Chamberlain, who emptied his revolver on Little Round Top was unable to " speed reload ".
 
swap

no I do not have an authentic photo at this time. I will see about doing some looking. Hard to believe some enterprising fool didn't come up with something.
I found several references to where extra cartridges (paper) and spare cylinders were carried in haversacks and knapsacks etc.
I wouldn't say or claim that swapping cylinders on the battles field were done as a speed reload, more often as just convenient.
But as others have said there are cases of revolvers being found with mismatched cylinders.
The colt factory fire of 1864 caused the Union Army to more readily adopt the Remington.
"The Remington revolver was a secondary, supplemental issue firearm for the Union Army until the Colt factory fire of 1864. Due to the fire the Colt 1860 Army was not available for some time, subsequently large numbers of the Remington revolver were ordered by the U.S. government. It was more expensive, by "50 cents" (a difference of more than US$12 in 2013 dollars), than the Colt, but those who could afford it remarked on its durability and ability to quickly reload by switching to another pre-loaded cylinder."
--They had to carry that preloaded cylinder somewhere.
"The Remington-Beals revolver permitted easy cylinder removal, allowing a quick reload with a spare pre-loaded cylinder (an advantage over other revolver designs of the time."
Of course I run into the same info you all do. Articles that spare cylinders were to be had and were likely carried. But as of yet no documentation of belt pouches.
They had cap pouchs as most all firearms of the time required percussion caps, and cartridge pouches on the belt and shoulder slung.
One would presume a convenient way of carrying and accessing the spare cylinders would exist as well.
the closest i could come so far is this Kriegs Marine spare cylinder pouch.
http://shcivilwarantiques.com/catalog/vintage-canes/ scroll down til you see it.
Also in the 1870's I find where the cap pouch was refined for revolver cartridges.
 
Chapman, Arthur. The Pony Express: The Record of a Romantic Adventure in Business. G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, New York, 1932. Illustrated with contemporary prints & photos Pony Express. Contains interviews with Pony Express riders.

States that;

"at first the riders were armed with carbines, as well as two revolvers per man. The carbines were soon discarded, as were the extra revolvers. The usual armament was one “navy” revolver. Occasionally a rider carried an extra, loaded cylinder for his revolver, in case of a fight with several opponents at close quarters. Even this extra weight was begrudged."


Also;

Source: Settle, Raymond W. and Mary Lund Settle. Saddles and Spurs: The Pony Express Saga and Bloss, Roy S. Pony Express: The Great Gamble.

See also Roy Bloss's essay "Thomas Bowdler's Elegy For The Pony Express

States that;

"rode regularly between Lake Tahoe and Buckland’s Station in Nevada. Once he recalled that when asked to make an extra long ride when his relief rider refused to continue, he was ready to ride “... after adjusting my Spencer rifle, which was a seven-shooter and my Colt revolver, with two cylinders ready for use in case of emergency.”


For more info see this web-site;


http://www.xphomestation.com/weapons.html
 
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Keith reports in "Sixgun" that as a child he was acquainted with two cavalry veterans from the War of Southern Miscalculation, one from the Union, one from the Confederacy. Both apparently adhered to the more than one revolver school of thought and he recounts nothing from them about extra cylinders. Exchange of cylinders on horseback, in a fight, does not seem at all easy.
 
It appears that at least some Union cavalry in the Civil War were issued additional cylinders for their revolvers. Special pouches were produced to store these extra cylinders. I can't find an authoritative source off hand, but here's a repro: http://www.militaryuniformsupply.com/civil-war-pistol-cylinder-box

Also, it appears that in 1863, at the request of the US Army, Remington discontinued the easy-swap cylinder feature on the 1863 model: http://civilwarhandgun.com/remington.htm

This was to prevent the loss of cylinders in action. Again, this is hardly an authoritative source, so take it with a huge grain of salt.

Regardless, I don't think that many soldiers replaced cylinders on horseback. It likely happened in defensive positions.

-John
 
Regardless, I don't think that many soldiers replaced cylinders on horseback. It likely happened in defensive positions.
Click to expand...

I agree there. It would be almost impossible even if the horse was a slow gait. Possibly at a walk maybe but anything else the rider would be to jostled around to replace their cylinder.
 
I have a 58 and sometimes the cylinders replace easily, sometimes not. I am sure in a stressed situation it would be difficult to change cylinders but quicker than reloading 6.
 
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