Daylight street robbery

[harrygunner]

Video of two perps robbing two men on the street in Oakland, CA during the day with several people walking nearby.

http://www.baycitizen.org/crime/story/fruitvale-merchants-armed-and-wary/

Couple of stories here: a) the bad guys are very brazen, knowing California has neutered its people; b) there's an uprising of sorts from the merchants in that area.

I watched the video several times to notice as much as I could about how such a robbery can happen. On the street, everyone is within 21 feet, little time to react.

The first victim was not paying attention. The second victim moved behind a car, but returned to give up his money, knowing he had few options. If armed while behind that car, he had a chance to make things harder for the perps.

Thoughts?

 

[Al Thompson]

That's very disturbing. The matter of fact attitude of all concerned is horrifying.

I can't make out what sort of weapons (if any) are being brandished. Obviously if it was a firearm and the victim didn't have one (why they are called victims IMHO) probably best to hand over the cash.

Contact weapon, different ball game.

 

[mgkdrgn]

And, we get to see again first hand just how much "security" a security camera provides ... both of those fellows could be dead as easily as not.

 

[sm]

Agree with Al's post number two.

This is how it really goes down on the streets folks.
The criminals know the law most often better than the law abiding.
Criminals know the limitations of victims in regard to firearm/weapon laws. Meaning they know the law abiding adhere to laws whereas other criminals they victimize, do not.

Crime happens fast, and in the blink of an eye. Hence the reason here in S&T we share and discuss S&T.

No gun, no weapon, is a magic talisman to keep evil away, nor will any magic talisman magically deal with evil if it should come to doing so.

It looks to me in the video, the perps knew the victims all too well. Had them "cased" beforehand. Something to think about.


Lets be careful out there. - Hill Street Blues

 

[mortablunt]

Another shining example of gun control preventing crime /END SARCASM

 

[sidheshooter]

We've covered this thought here before as well, but this serves as a reminder: if you have keys in your hand, and/or are entering or exiting a vehicle or structure, keep your wits about you and your head on a swivel.

 

[harrygunner]

I haven't had to go to this section of east Oakland, where this happened, but I do go to Oakland, the east Bay Area and some of the cities along the 99 Fwy corridor south of Sacramento. Over a decade ago, a sheriff told me I need a gun if business took me to these places. So, I've had a CCW permit ever since.

I take being in "Condition Yellow" seriously and watching the video, I would have seen these guys coming, especially, in a location known for violence. If I were the first guy, handing over my fake wallet could be the best thing to do. Ducking behind the van, drawing and yelling that I'm armed is another possibility. I could see myself doing that since I would have alerted on the guy walking aggressively my way, along with seeing his hand moving behind his back.

In the position of the second guy, who had a chance to move behind a car, I've trained with police in using cars as cover.

Interestingly, these victims acted almost like this was "just life in the neighborhood". They stayed around afterward. I would have left immediately in case the BG's came back for more.

Hard to say if they understood the situation and that it would not escalate; or that they resigned themselves in a state that discouraged them from defending themselves.

 

[conw]

Cars aren't cover. A minor distinction? I think not. Vic #1 would have been well served by sidestepping behind the van to use it as a temporary obstacle, or concealment at best. He didn't have much time but the aggressive cues from the perps targeting him were obvious.

Vic #2 should have positioned himself so as not to be in the "funnel" or field of threat with v1. E.g. continued creating distance once behind the car...but not for distance's sake per se. Instead to widen the angle.

My recommended tactics don't change a lot if you plug a Good Guy Gun in. Sound tactics are usually sound tactics. Like sm said it isn't a talisman. It may change the outcome but it doesn't change sound tactics.

 

[harrygunner]

Thank you for your assessment. ST&T is a good place to discuss situations like this.

It would have been nice if the two victims had given the perps a lesson about the Second Amendment. I suspect a decently trained, armed citizen could have created a different outcome.

Fortunately, as I mentioned, I've had an opportunity to train with a police department where we shot into, out of and around a car. The instructor made sure we all knew which parts of cars can provide cover. You're right, they provide little of it.

 

[Rat Blaster]

This is why I carry two wallets.....

 

[Strykervet]

I don't understand why the second guy stood around and waited to get robbed. He had time to put some distance between him and the two buffoons.

If I were going to commit one on one crimes like this, I'd move to S. California. If I were to commit mass robbery, I move to Wall Street. Either way, unarmed victims are what I would seek.

 

[ball3006]

Why isn't a car considered cover? You are putting an obstacle between you and the threat....chris3

 

[LiquidTension]

Because most rounds will penetrate clean through a car everywhere but the engine and wheels. A car should be considered concealment, not cover.