Defense drills for a shotgun....

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W Turner

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Hillsboro, AL
I have had a HD type shotgun of one type or another for the past few years and feel relatively confident in my ability to use it.

I am looking for a defensive drill or series of drills that I can practice in order to gain proficiency with my shotgun.

My current scattergun is an 18.5" bbl. Rem 870 with a factory 2 rd. extension and a Speedfeed pistol grip stock (not the one with the shellholders in it though).

Any websites, comments etc. will be appreciated...

Mino
 
Now we are talking. :) This is my kinda thing.

The more you handle your shotgun the better off you will be, so anything from bunny rabbit hunting to clay games will make you a better defensive shotgunner. Your shotgun should be an extension of your body.

If you can find yourself a local 3 gun or tactical shotgun match. That way you can practice tough scenarios on the clock and under pressure. Some people may say, but that is unrealistic, when am I ever going to engage 22 bad guys with my shotgun. Guess what? If you get to the point that you can engage 20 of them super fast, then one or two should be downright easy. :)

The best way to practice is get some steel targets. This is really the only way to go for good shotgun practice. Card board boxes, grocery bags, and milk cartons will work too, but they don't work nearly as well as a good steel target. Access to a timer will really help you improve, because the timer doesn't lie.

Practice hitting a single target as fast as you can. When that becomes as easy as breathing, add more targets. Space them close together to practice hammering out rounds quick. Space them further apart to practice transitioning from target to target.

Practice shooting the targets multiple times quick. If you have falling steel, practice to the point that you can hit them more than once before they fall down.

Change distances. Change positions. Shoot from standing, sitting, kneeling, and since you are using a pump gun, especially from prone. It can be done, but you need to figure out how to do it well. Practice with your off hand. Practice from around corners, doorways, over cover, around cover, under cover.

When you get to the point that your shotgun is really your friend, practice moving and shooting. Move laterally and engage a bank of targets. Charge the targets, retreat while shooting. Just be careful when you do this if you are using steel targets, because the closer you get the more you are going to get pelted. :) Trust me I know on this one.

For the high volume practice you don't need to use expensive defensive ammo. If it costs too much, then you won't be able to keep it up. That defeats the purpose of training. Use cheap bulk stuff like the Winchester big packs that they sell at Wal Mart. But at the same time, make sure that you can still be fast and accurate with your good stuff.

Make sure you pattern your defensive gun with your choosen load at various distances. It can be very eye opening. Memorize those patterns.

If you believe in slugs, you need to practice with them as well. Shooting shot at man sized targets fast requires a totally different kind of focus than making a precision shot with a slug. When I'm shooting shot I don't really use the sights at all, I focus on the targets. When I shoot slugs I have to shift gears and treat my SG like it is a rifle. Learn how to select slugs and change loads if you need it.

Practice keeping your shotgun loaded. Learn to manipulate the shotgun in a manner that if you ain't shooting you are loading. Find the method that works best for you to do this. If you need to go to an awkward position to effectively load the shotgun then you are doing something wrong. Some people may need to build up their upper body strength to the point that this is easy. You should be practiced enough with manipulating and loading your SG that you don't need to look at the gun to do so. Keep your head up and scanning.

For scenarios, use your imagination. There are lots of good ones. If you would like I could go back and look at some match results, describe the stage to you, and give you and idea what some good times would be.

I had a stage a couple of weeks ago with 22 steel targets and a whole bunch of movement and use of cover. www.udpl.net/results/3-Gun/111503s1.htm I did it in 31 seconds. :) I figure if I need to engage a couple of home invaders, I'll be a bit better prepared than your average gunnie.

Finally your shotgun should be your friend! Remember if you aren't having fun, then you are doing something wrong.
 
Start by throwing that pistol grip away and get a proper stock. There is nothing as useless as a shotgun with no stock. Get one with a pistol grip, if you insist, but it MUST have a shoulder stock. That thing you have gives you zero control. Pistol grip only stocks are for Hollywood, not the real world.
Load up some powderless, primerless ammo and practice cycling the action and loading. Dry firing is good practice too. Cycle the action and fire(aimed only) on an empty chamber. No ammo. If you use the DP rounds, make damn sure you can tell the difference between live ammo and your DP without looking for a primer. Black marker lines on the hull would do.
Same thing on a range but using live ammo. Pepper poppers are good targets for this. Enough targets so a reload is required. Spread 'em around and shoot 'em down. Aimed shouldered shots only. No hip shooting. That is useless, inacurate, Hollywood crappola too.
 
Um,
Correia, you need to tell him that you did that with a Saiga auto with detachable 8 round mags.

I have some other suggestions that go along with what Correia said.

Other drills that are useful:
get some hairspray or paint can lids. toss them out to 7-10 yds. practice hitting them and pumping a new one in as it comes to rest. This will teach you to not waste any time shot to shot. In other words: shoot, pump, shoot again. Don't sit there thinking about the moving can lid, and then slowly shucking old hull out and getting new shell in.
There are a couple of things that make the difference in defensive shotgunning:
1) Concentrate on moving the slide all the way back and all the way forward- each and every time. A short stroke is just as bad as an auto shotgun jamming- don't let it happen. if you do short stroke, then you will learn NOT TO during practice. That is where you want to see your mistakes, is on the range.
2) Reloading under duress. I have an 870 set up EXACTLY like yours and I love it. I have in my safe next to my 870 a 25 round bandoleer with shot one direction and slugs in the opposite. I need the shotgun, I grab bandoleer and that goes over head and shoulder. The essence of a good reload is that the shells are all facing the same direction so that you don't go into a pocket and pull out a hodge-podge of different facing shells. Practice at the range with any method of your choice on grabbing a shell and loading. Don't try to grab 4 shells at once and then try to cram them all in, just start with the idea that in real defense situation, fine motor skills go down the crapper. If you have a side shell holder on the receiver, fine, practice with that. Just don't go to the range and set a box of bird on the bench and load from that, because that isn't how you are going to fight.
3) At home, not only dry fire, but use you house's internal doorframes to work on using cover/concealment. Practice using your weakside shoulder to shoot from when confronted with the idea that it is better to conceal yourself as much as you can using your weak side than sticking out your entire torso to use your strong side. Don't stick out your muzzle past the door, so an adversary can grab a muzzle from behind a door.
hope this helps, HD shotgunning is one of my favorite hobbies.
john l
 
Shotgun Exercise Guide:

1. Rolling Thunder! (my fave):)

2. Shoot one, load one;

3. Footwork drills (moving with the weapon), check local listings for range rules;

4. Position shooting (standing, sitting, kneeling, CA kneel, prone, Skunk Squat), adding in shoot one, load one;

5. Mal drills;

6. Transition drills;

7. Accuracy drills (hostage shots).

As well, exercise with the weapon. No, just don't shoot it, lift it--militree presses, reverse curls, curls, lat raises, one handed holds, etc.

Look for the El Tejon Shotgun Exercise DVD in the near future. It features me in leotards on the cover.:p
 
John, Sometimes a man just has to brag. :) (dang that Saiga is fast though).

El T. I'll pay you NOT to appear in leotards on that video. :p
 
Correia could you describe how you shoot-n-shuck the 870 in prone position?
See I didn't even mention the video your gonna provide for us -" Correia Speed loading the 870". Cause if I had --I'd suggested doing a complete "Correia 870 guide for the Interested." :)

[ rumor is some tilecrawer is gonna do one in leotards...nuh uh...I'll wait for yours]

Not a 3 gunner myself , but have put "some" ( ahem) shotshells downrange mostly flying stuff, plenty of steels, teddys and the like.

I agree the more one handles a SG ( any platform for that matter) the more way ahead one is. Once proper mount and stance ...etc., is learned , mounting and dryfire helps a lot. Suprises some folks the upper body gets used the way it does. Even more surprise how the whole darn body gets used. When I competed -been known to do as many( up to ) 500 of these a day. Not totally nuts , nope that'd be the day I shot 16 practice rds...still more sane than leotards tho'...:p
 
Wow! Rarely has so much real info on anything been packed into so little bandwidth.That especially applies to "Serious" shotgunning, which is so darn vulnerable to myth,opinion and theory.

The best advice above boils down to SHOOT THE DARN THING. When it feels like a body part, you're getting there.

In addition, I suggest a walk through of your house with a shotgun KNOWN TO BE EMPTY. For instance, Casa McC demands RH action from the upstairs down to the main floor, and then LH use from the main to the basement.

Also, not to repeat myself, but measuring the longest shot distance possible and then patterning at that range can be quite educational and illuminating.

HTH...
 
How I do it might not work for everybody, but here goes. Instead of getting flat and steady like when your prone with a rifle, I roll onto my side a bit. My right elbow (I'm a righty) hits the ground. Left elbow floats, and that way I can still run the pump. Lefty would be reversed. Don't tilt to far or you will get off balance. Also I have seen some people tilt way to far over, pump slowly and lose their live shell off of the ejection port.

We ran a stage with a some prone shotgun shooting on plates. Let me see if I can find the string and I'll put up some times. I was SOing, and I was surprised how well many of the pumpgunners did on that stage.

sm, I swear I'm going to get a video done one of these days. :)
 
Here are some examples of courses of fire from the last year with corresponding times that my local club ran them in. I'll just talk about the times of the top 10 shooters, because some folks need a LOT longer. Sorry I don't have these scanned in like the one I linked above, so I'll just try to describe them. The averages are me taking an educated guess after looking at the top 10 shooters. :) Keep in mind that sometimes #10 can be a long way from #1. This is from the low ready, safety on.

5 shot speed drill: 5 plates. 10 yards. About a yard between each. Times from 2.11 to 4.54. I know of some folks doing this with auto loaders in 1.5 and pumps in 1.8.

7 shot Speed drill: 15 yards. 7 targets. about a yard between each target. Hit them all with 1 shot each. Times from 2.72 to 6.58. Average was around 4 1/2.

Position shooting drill: 10 yards. 9 shots. Standing behind cover, shoot the targets from standing. Then kneel or squat and shoot the targets. Then go prone and shoot the targets. This stage started with 5 shots in the gun so it was a level playing field for the shooters regardless of SG. Times from 14.31 to 25.53. Average was about 20.

Weak hand drill: 10 yards 6 shots. 3 targets. Standing behind cover, using your weak side, engage the 3 targets with 2 shots each. This string also started with 5 in the gun. (we changed our club rules after this :p) so the shooter needed to load one extra shell to finish. Times went from 7.31 to 14.71. Average was about 11.



For an example of longer COFs these strings had some reloading in them or movement.

12 shots. 6 plates. Spaced really wide apart. 1&2 directly in front of you. 3&4 90 degrees to your right. 5&6 almost 180 degrees to the right. The shooter needed to put 2 on each. Times from 16.21 to 35.08, average was about 20.

16 targets. 12 that are poppers. 4 knock downs. Ranges from 10-15 yards. The shooter starts behind a barricade and uses cover the whole time. At the buzzer the shooter had to hit 5 plates, and then knock down 2 fallers before they could move. Then they ran to the next barricade and engaged 3 poppers and 2 knock downs. Then they ran to the next barricade and engaged 4 targets. Total movement was about 20 yards laterally. Times ranged from: 23.25 to 40.37. Average for a good shooter was about 35.

There are many other ways to practice, but hopefully this will give you some ideas, and some yardsticks to compare yourself to. Keep in mind that this is with all sorts of different guns as well. Some types of shotguns are better suited for some tasks than others.
 
IME, I keep both elbows down. Being linked with ground=very good thing, even with a shotgun that you don't have to aim as it projects a Boulder of Death that rolls down range destroying all without mercy. [wonder if they'll catch that last part]

Lift slightly when manipulating slide-action weapon. YMMV.

mino, I forgot the best advice Uncle Walt gave me. Live with your weapon. Carry it around all day (usually office or house). Do the laundry, clean the bathroom, clean the garage with the weapon slung. Become one with your weapon, young Jedi.:D
 
Correia,
I'm right handed also, and seek clarification if I may...
Ok I used to be more "flat" like rifle (weight pretty much flat if that makes sense) and has to move the left elbow a bunch. ( unlike rifle where left being fixed with a sling and right working the bolt).

Due to emergency appendectomy one fall, for a bit that side didn't like being flat...I heal fast, even so, healing up and all flat not comfy. So I had more weight on left hip and instead of "flat" right side of body below waist higher than left. [ with me so far?] Right shoulder more down...I felt more balanced though perhaps looked twisted.

Left side more afloat and able to shuck and load, right side and shoulder more down the 870 stayed in pocket better. I found it easier when having to speed load to cant with left the gun load with right and drop back to position. I was playing with loading with left but not as comfy or practiced. Plus I've always loaded with trigger hand and figured I'd fall flat on my face trying something new with the left.

Perhaps that emergency appy was a good thing...staute of limitations is up...so can admit... I really wasn't supposed to be out playing with shotguns, unless "s-l-o-w on the physical stuff until steristips fall off" doesn't apply to...well...ya know how it goes?

Ya know, this is hard to describe huh ? :p

I really appreciate the sharing of experience, insights and tips everyone!
 
Some real good good advice here.

El T-
A Rolling Thunder with one person? Damn! I gotta get me some flowered shirts and leotards ;)

Denny
 
Hold up...
I didn't catch the part about "flowered shirts and leotards" being a "package deal"....

Sorry, that being the case....old blue jeans and T shirt me gonna keep doing it "wrong"... Methinks it's still a hangin'offense here in the South...:p

Gimmee 'slugs' , hold my tea, see that junk car on blocks?..."watch this"...:p
 
sm, I don't think us hard core gun types pay much attention to proper recovery times. I took my CCW class 2 days after I had my gall bladder removed. :D
 
A fairly good training drill I can recall from AWT (www.awt-co.com) was for shooters to line up in front of their respective targets, starting at near contact range, and to commence very slowly backing up, shotgun held covering the target. At the instructor's command, we would fire however many rounds were yelled out, 1, 2, or 3. Whatever we would shoot we would attempt to immediately load back in, while holding on target and continuing our slow backing. Once we got beyond the range where our respective weapon/buckshot combination was ineffective, we did select slug drills to continue. Ammo management was the shooter's problem and responsibility. At a certain point the line would be halted and the direction changed. This drill was an absolute killer on my wrist, which would start to cramp up from holding a fairly heavy shotgun on target while loading with the weakhand through the loading port. A pistol gripped/full stock would probably have helped, but this was a drill afterall, so I won't change my regular speedfeed stock.

A safety note: During this class (which was quite some time ago) the shooter on my immediate right utilized a 3 pt. sling. I noticed that he would bend down to pick up unfired shells that would fall to the ground during slug select drills. When he did so, as a right hander and his shotgun laid across his body, the barrel would lay across his upper knee/thigh and start to cover me. You can bet that I pointed that out!

EricO
 
Start by throwing that pistol grip away and get a proper stock. There is nothing as useless as a shotgun with no stock. Get one with a pistol grip, if you insist, but it MUST have a shoulder stock. That thing you have gives you zero control. Pistol grip only stocks are for Hollywood, not the real world.
Uh, while correct, this really doesn't apply to the thread starter. The Speedfeed stock is a PG with a full shoulder stock.

BTW, I dislike the speedfeed with the integral shell carrier. While this seems like a nifty idea, the shells do not seem to extract in a reliable, consistent manner. JMO.

Mike
 
SE Practical Shotgun Championship

After you hve mastered all these drills you'll be ready for the SE Practical Shotgun Champion held in Huntsville AL June 19 and 20. The application will be posted at seshooting.com. One skill I've found useful in practical shotgun games is the ability to shoot off the weakhand shoulder and this is something I occasionally practice. There has been at least one stage in the last three shotgun matches I shot where this was required or was the best solution to a stage problem.
 
Bill, do you have a webpage with info for that match? I used to live in Alabama and love excuses to go back and visit. :)
 
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