Diablo 12 gauge black powder pistol from American gun craft!

[KevininPa]

I thought the same. Then again, the platform is adaptable for other options. Heck, a buddy of mine has a 16g double with tenite stocks.

I'll give this company time to see how they work this. Be fun to have a knockabout bp shotgun. I'm guilty of babying the one I have!

 

[arcticap]

I'd like to see if plastic shot wads would help to extend the range and tighten up the shot pattern at all.

 

[Shotgunnation]

I’m still blow away by the light loads because that’s smart (which it is) to push the pistol well beyond what the manufacturer states as a max because... well, not much of an answer there, but certainly wasn’t smart or safe. Well, unless you truly understand how it’s made and what it can handle.

I am a gunsmith. I think I have a pretty decent understanding of this simple device.

 

[Shotgunnation]

I'd like to see if plastic shot wads would help to extend the range and tighten up the shot pattern at all.

Thats a great idea!

 

[rodwha]

I am a gunsmith. I think I have a pretty decent understanding of this simple device.

And I’m sure there are a few gunsmiths missing fingers...

There’s generally a bit of caution with BP guns with max loads under what the actual maximum might be. It’s generally not twice the powder and projectile weight combined.

 

[Shotgunnation]

Lol... it's fine.

 

[rodwha]

Maybe it is. Maybe you know all about the barrels and what they and the breech plugs can handle. You clearly don’t know much about BP or you’d know there’s no way all of that powder was burned inside the barrel and useful. But keep up the work by all means.

 

[Shotgunnation]

Ok bill nye

 

[rodwha]

Bill Nye? Oh no, this is just simple stuff here. It’s right along the lines of “what do I need to know to get started.” Now working on powder charge/load ratios or paper/plastic shot cups, and jug choking is where there’s a bit more advancement. Powder granule size and powder charge vs barrel length is much more basic. No need for a science degree or even good grades in science during high school for that.

That being your response was quite telling though...

 

[Shotgunnation]

Ok bill nye

 

[rodwha]

Whatever Lefty...

 

[Shotgunnation]

Weeeeee!!!

 

[rodwha]

Oh, a bit of advice:
Anytime you double down against what the manufacturer states and then video it for curious people you may want to add a disclaimer and mention how it shouldn’t be done. It’s the smart thing to do. Oh wait, we went through that already.

 

[Shotgunnation]

They never said 40-80 was the maximum load. They said that's the best useful load you can put into it. It's seriously fine. You're being slightly dramatic

 

[KevininPa]

C'mon guys, let's stay high road here. Whether he's a salesman or not, let's keep it cool. I'm personally interested in the line. I see a lot of potential for the reasons I already stated. Out of curiosity I searched and found other videos.

To be honest, this little six incher holds no interest for me. The more common type loading eleven could be fun though. If that could eventually be stretched to twenty to twenty-four inches with a full stock, now that would make me giggle. Standard stock synthetic, wood higher priced option. Polished standard. Lower priced shooter grade, bead blasted. Bead blasted might be nicer for hunting anyway, less reflection off the top of the barrel. And all hopefully for half or two thirds of a Pedersoli. And American made.

Just my two cents.

 

[Shotgunnation]

C'mon guys, let's stay high road here. Whether he's a salesman or not, let's keep it cool. I'm personally interested in the line. I see a lot of potential for the reasons I already stated. Out of curiosity I searched and found other videos.

To be honest, this little six incher holds no interest for me. The more common type loading eleven could be fun though. If that could eventually be stretched to twenty to twenty-four inches with a full stock, now that would make me giggle. Standard stock synthetic, wood higher priced option. Polished standard. Lower priced shooter grade, bead blasted. Bead blasted might be nicer for hunting anyway, less reflection off the top of the barrel. And all hopefully for half or two thirds of a Pedersoli. And American made.

Just my two cents.

I appreciate you stepping in . No I'm not a salesman. And I agree with all of the critics that you gave

 

[KevininPa]

No problem. Just like to see where this line goes. Versions, product support, etc.

Can't be too much different than the inline bp rifle invasion we had awhile back. Don't get me wrong though, if a Pedersoli crosses my path for the right price, I'll grab it every time over these newer styles. They're just that nicely made. I have two now, a .50 and a 12 gauge double, both percussion.

 

[rodwha]

I could well have misunderstood what you said about the loading being a recommendation and not a max. If so I’m sorry for pressing you on it. What do they claim the max is?

 

[grter]

Unless the Wood stock is stronger than the synthetic stock I might lean toward the synthetic provided that it's strong enough to handle the heavy recoil of maximum charged loads. The pistol grip design has me worried that a wood version may break under heavy recoil unless it's a top quality strong flexible wood with the grain properly lined up to flex in the proper direction when firing. That would probably increase the price significantly.

All of the above may be moot if the plastic/synthetic used is poor quality (cheap plastic) but if it is not it should be significantly stronger than most woods. What kind of plastic is used for the stock ? I don't mean to be a tough customer but design of these little goodies, even the 11" barrel double trigger (potential for super duper recoil there) percussion lock 12 gauges being offered do lend themselves to heavy recoil.

 

[desmobob]

If that could eventually be stretched to twenty to twenty-four inches with a full stock, now that would make me giggle. Standard stock synthetic, wood higher priced option. Polished standard. Lower priced shooter grade, bead blasted. Bead blasted might be nicer for hunting anyway, less reflection off the top of the barrel. And all hopefully for half or two thirds of a Pedersoli. And American made.

Just my two cents.

That would be mighty interesting, for sure.

 

[Shotgunnation]

20191102_091554

• Shotgunnation
• Nov 2, 2019

The recoil is extremely manageable. After having fun and exploring how much power you could put into it. I decided to take it out and put it to some real use. If you are using it for closer range hunting then you're probably not going to go over 60 grains and ½ oz of shot. At least not for varmint hunting. And I figure 80 would be pretty good if you're using round ball at close range as well. Brought it along to the woods and got a few squirrels. My woods are thick and I often end up too close to several of them to harvest with my shotgun. By the time they get to a desired distance I'm shooting thru tons of brush. So this really came in handy!

 

[Shotgunnation]

Thats an INSANE amount of power. I had some surprisingly devastating results when comparing 12 gauge roundball with .45 acp.

Shooting Review and penetration testing of the AGC American Gun Craft Diablo - a 12 gauge Double Barrel Black Powder Side by Side Pistol.

 

[arcticap]

Bravo! That was an excellent and useful comparison of the effectiveness of shooting the different loads.
I also liked the comparison with the .45 acp.
Great effort and very well done video.
It's probably not that some powder isn't being wasted but you at least showed that the short barrel didn't reach its peak performance at 80 grains.
That's amazing and goes a long way to help dispel a lot of myths.
It's probably not too unlike a full size cannon.
One would expect a little waste or excess powder, but if one wants the performance then maximize the load.
That big 12 ga. bore certainly has its advantages.

 

[Shotgunnation]

Bravo! That was an excellent and useful comparison of the effectiveness of shooting the different loads.
I also liked the comparison with the .45 acp.
Great effort and very well done video.
It's probably not that some powder isn't being wasted but you at least showed that the short barrel didn't reach its peak performance at 80 grains.
That's amazing and goes a long way to help dispel a lot of myths.
It's probably not too unlike a full size cannon.
One would expect a little waste or excess powder, but if one wants the performance then maximize the load.
That big bore certainly has its advantages.

Eloquently said. I'm going to get my hands on some FFF and test further.

 

[grter]

A couple of things I would like to share from my reading (internet reading) on short barrel shotguns keeping in mind that different powders (smokeless) may yield different results.

Smaller diameter barrels have significantly more internal pressure when firing than larger diameter barrels often even with smaller powder charges. I was surprised how big the difference in pressure is.

The larger diameter bore allows more space for the powder to burn over a longer period of time. The generally heavier loads (projectiles) to fit a larger bore would also contribute to that.

From what I read in the smokeless world aside from loud muzzle blast, heavy recoil, and short sight radius the ballistic performance, range, power, and shot pattern (in most cases with standard powders) differ very little between short barrel shotguns (12 inch) and their longer barrel counterparts (18" bennelli shotgun.) There is a youtube video out there where they are compared (cylinder bore.) Choke makes the shot pattern not barrel length.

I see the short barrel shotgun as a big power pack in a small package. A lot of what is said in America these days about short barrel shotguns is based on hollywood myth that is often not refuted because of a diminished knowledge base due to the lack of mainstream use post ban.

It's a shame since the short barrel shotgun is actually very American. They were at one time extensively used and their value appreciated. People knew the potential of a good short barrel shotgun.

I always wondered how this would translate when black powder is used but using only 6 inches of barrel and getting that kind of penetration with such a large and heavy projectile tells me that a short barrel black powder shotgun works quite well. I also read that modern smokeless shotgun loads are tailored to match their black powder predecessors in performance with marginal improvement.

Someone used to manufacture chokes for pistol sized smoothbore barrels up until the illogical ban was enacted against any smoothbore non shotgun barrel. So there has been some manufacturing research and development into chokes for shorter barrels in the past.

I am impressed with this American Made beauty.