Do we gun owners shoot ourselves...

[langenc]

For those not voting-and those who are not at all pleased with the selection-regardless of party, please help us all. When you start to get those letters with requests for money-just state you will not be voting and give a reason why.

It may not be worth anything but usually the envelopes have postage so it wont cost you anything either.

 

[bogie]

You know, this is probably the first election in about 20 or so years where the "gun culture" is not a viable voting bloc...

We've allowed ourselves to become so fragmented, and tried to split so many hairs, and we're ready to throw each other to the wolves over minor stuff... Sad.

There are a finite number of voters. When you are PERSUADED (and you HAVE been persuaded - think about what you've seen on TV and the rest of the media for the past seven years) to withdraw from the contest, you are giving an advantage to someone, even if you are not specifically voting for them.

If Hilbama scores, two years from now, we're going to hear a lot of you guys bitching, when there's talk of who the next Supreme Court justice is going to be. When the text of the new Assault Weapons Bill gets spewed by Schumer and Feinstein.

Sad.

 

[Indifferent]

I think anti gun owners shoot themselves in the foot.
My supervisor is so Anti gun, she thinks a gun ban would make it to only government officials would have guns, I tried to point out how defenseless civilians would be, etc. She is like we have tasers, and pepper spray. She is against guns, knives, and big sticks. So this 100lb. girl thinks she can defend herself with pepper spray, and a taser. Which to be honest, of all the defensive or offinsive tools out there, those are the only two I would want to be hit with!

my frustration, cuz, I can't argue too much, she's my boss. Grrr....:banghead:

 

[JohnKSa]

What I'm afraid of is that the conservative malaise about the presidential election will bleed over into the ENTIRE election.

I trust that everyone will still be showing up at the polls to make sure they are properly represented in Congress.

 

[xephael]

I have voted in every single election since I moved here in 1983 and firmly believe from my discussions with neighbors and friends etc. that more people think/believe as I do. But they fail/refuse to vote or pay no attention to the issues and vote as they're told. The dirth of informed voters is so blatant that during the last (primary) election, a young(17yo) student judge commented to me (the not so young judge) that it was evident

If your friends and neighbors are agreeing with you but not participating; have you ever considered that maybe they're not actually your friends or agreeing with you?

Sometimes candidates are equally as bad... If you had your choice of Obama or McCain regarding firearms rights who would you pick? I would pick neither and refuse to vote for them in that regard.

 

[IllHunter]

What I meant...

If your friends and neighbors are agreeing with you but not participating; have you ever considered that maybe they're not actually your friends or agreeing with you?

I used the line"friends,neighbors,etc." to try and illustrate my interactions with people known to me and strangers with whom I have interacted. I tend to be active in local politics and gun rights movements which are inherently more "conservative" thinkers. My work exposes me to many business and home owners from whom I infer political leanings. Though not quantifiable, these inferences are my opinion and are expressed here as such.I know who my friends are, they tend to be the politically active gun rights activists who have and will keep the opposition alive in this enclave of anti-gun sheeple.
I will vote for McCain and continue to let all my (and some others) of my elected representatives of my beliefs. I know Obama's history of socialist nanny tactics and gun control. A little research on his few votes and constant support of anti-gun legislation at all levels of gov'nmt may change your mind. Let me pose this to you, if Obama wants change, why does he support the Daley Administration and their stranglehold on Chicago politics and government? 40+ years of demcratic rule have only built the countries' largest socialist quasi dictatorial regime. Has your mayor ever bulldozed an airport, at night?

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I have never believed in voting for a party but have always voted for the candidate that most represented my views and beliefs. This election doesn't offer much of a choice from either side but I will vote.

The ones of you that are saying that you will not vote may think that is the sitution to the problem, but I contend that you are contributing the problem.

 

[ronwill]

For those who think not voting, or voting for a 3rd party candidate, will "teach them a lesson" think back to Perot. Did the Republicans change their ways? Did the Democrats become all powerful? The answer is no to both of these. You MUST look at the viable candidates and choose the one that is closest to what you want. I am not a McCain fan either, but he sure beats the other choices in my mind. I hope he chooses Huckabee as a running mate because a Clinton/Obama ticket scares me to no end.

 

[R127]

Sure, just realize that with your good cop/bad cop strategy things will never get better only progressively worse.

 

[alsaqr]

I am totally bent out of shape that the Republican party to which I have belonged to for 48 years could not come up with a viable pro-gun candidate for president. Furthermore, I am bent out of shape at Bush and the Republicans who controlled the US congress for six years: They did very little for US gunowners. Oh, they talked a good talk when they came home to campaign; then they wussed out when they got back to DC.

I may retch, gag and vote for McCain. Then again I may just stay at home.

 

[CountGlockula]

Just like religion, gun ownership is a deeper issue than it really is.

 

[BamaHoosier]

I've got electile dysfunction this time around.

 

[Catherine]

Where is the original link - entire story that shows that entire post on GOA?

I can't get it to work. I would appreciate the entire story if any of you have it saved.

YES, gun owners SHOOT themselves in the foot often when it comes to GUN politics and in MANY OTHER freedom issues.

Nothing new there. Kind of sad and well... I can't say what I REALLY want to say.

They sell out with Second Amendment aka RKBA COMPROMISES along with OTHER liberty issues... history and facts prove that comment.

Thanks for the entire post if any of you have it in your email box.

Of course, you should let the politicos know how you REALLY FEEL and what the blazes you will do with it - with your VOTE - pro or con for ALL traitors and sell outs.

Most REAL conservatives/constitution people and "some" Republicans know that the R PARTY LEFT them along with all of the other STUFF that the NWO Neo Con Artists have pulled. That goes for the NWO Democrats that have screwed the old fashioned Dems too. Those traitors are more into Globalist issues instead of America FIRST issues whether it comes to real pro gun issues, illegal aliens, our infrastructure, budgets, deficits, border control, shore and sky control, amnesty for illegal aliens = criminals and the companies that hire them, I am not talking about LEGAL immigrants or citizens but ILLEGAL aliens, Ignoring the CONSTITUTION, your Bill of Rights - ALL of them, you name it!

Sincerely,

Catherine
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

 

[Catherine]

PS

PS:

Check out where SOME Republicans have pulled the anti gun - anti liberty = same sell outs as some Democrats have pulled too. Now... that is really SAD.

Can you spell RINO?

I can!

Republican in name only.

You have them in the District of Criminals and in another house that is painted WHITE.

Can you spell ANTI GUN and ANTI FREEDOM?

I can!

Go to the so called leading candidates and their websites! READ their proposed ideas. READ their voting history. Listen to their answers that change from day to day and state to state.

Go to the R and D and ALL other candidates sites for ALL of the people running.

SAD... so very sad.

Respectfully yours,

Catherine
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

 

[Catherine]

PPS

VOTE with your vote... PRO GUN. If I were to vote for one issue... it would be for a PRO GUN = PRO LIBERTY VOTE.

Without your true gun rights... you have nothing to back up the rest of the Constitution.

YOUR Second Amendment protects your FIRST and all of the other ones.

What is the FIRST thing that NWO, anti gun U.N., globalist control freaks, anti gunners, kings and TYRANTS want to do from the American Revolution time to NOW?

Take away your gun rights and all other LIBERTY ISSUES... they go hand in hand.

Sincerely,

Catherine
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

 

[bogie]

Sigh...

This time around, you're either voting against someone, or you're allowing them to gain the office by placing your vote with someone who cannot ensure that they do not make it into office.

If the Democrats do not completely destroy themselves, and we've got Hilbama going up against McCain, you have to step back, and ask yourself "Who will do the worst damage?"

With McCain, at least he'll be somewhat on leash from his own party. With Hilbama, the Democrats will gleefully push any gun control through for signature... Add in supreme court appointees, and life is going to get interesting.

 

[Catherine]

It is very sad indeed.

We have the same old garbage in biased mass media and rigged elections for the sheep who don't pay attention except for a FEW people who are not sheep.

Most base it on emotion, not facts, and they certainly do NOT learn from HISTORY. Same old - same old.

LESSER

of

the

EVILS.

NO thank you - been there - done that. Regretted it with a passion ever since.

I have done "write in votes" and I have voted THIRD PARTY back in 1988 which I will never regret. Gee, I wonder who that could have been for? Grin.

I say if you have a candidate that you know the background and VOTING RECORD of in REAL pro gun and real pro liberty issues... vote for him.

If not... vote for whoever. Whatever trips your trigger.

I will be able to look in the mirror and when more gun rights and more LIBERTY issues get flushed down the toilet of NO return with a big old swooshing sound... I will wear a sign that says:

Don't blame me - I voted for THE MAN who had a clue! One who does NOT ignore that silly piece of paper that YOU know who called YOU know what along with all of those other anti gun - anti freedom candidates.

Peace and liberty,

Catherine

 

[Catherine]

PS:

You mentioned destruction?

I hope that those 3, ahemmm, politicos do destroy themselves and that they show their true anti gun, ANTI America FIRST and anti liberty issues pretty soon.

I hope that they have a circus at their conventions too.

Maybe some liberty folks will see the LIGHT but I doubt it.

Peace.

Catherine

 

[TEDDY]

what who

well you threw the only decent canidate down the tubes but he is there in the back ground.MITT ROMNEY.I know his gun record as I am a member of GOAL of Mass.I know his financial skills.He might also be picked for Vis president.I am not happy with McCain but I hope republicans take the house back.that will steady McCain.otherwise I fear blood shed.you have never had the jack boots on you.I have.
as to the republicans they seem to be doing good here in SC.18yr olds can own pistols.just cant buy from FFL.I remember my youth always had a pistol
as did my friends from 14? up high school had rifle range and instuctor.the school supplied the rifles an ammo.old men like me can remember the good old days at lease with guns.------------

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Not voting or voting for a third party is just as important to the American electorial process.

I don't see how "not voting" is important to the electoral process. Especially when the House and Senate are so much more important to the RKBA fight than POTUS.

I am all for voting your conscience. Although I fear that in 2008 it will give us a Presidency that is extremely willing to stomp all over many, many of our rights.

"Don't blame me. I stayed home and watched American Idol".

 

[nicki]

Politics, start early, start local.

Many are unhappy with our choices, but how many of us were involved before choices came to be.

While gun issues are big issues for this forum, the gun issue is not a top issue for the general public.

The reality is we are coming to a day of reckoning real soon because we can't have trade deficits, govt deficits and more govt spending.

We will have only 2 classes of people real soon, the rich and the poor.

The super rich may not be too happy with people like us owning guns after many of us have just lost our homes.

What we as a group need to do is reconsider how we run our own lives.

I am going to make some proposals for this group.

1. All of us should become financially literate. The schools don't teach us to be financially literate, that is why so many Americans are in debt.

2. We need to become self employed. Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki both advocate this. They reccommend that you start with a network marketing company not to make money, but to learn.

Of course if you find one that makes money, that is even better.

3. We need to recognize that the issue isn't guns, it is freedom and as such, find other groups fighting for their freedoms and make alliances.

4. We must be willing to reach across the political spectrum. Not everyone on the left is anti gun and not everyone on the right is a christian fundamentalist.

Hitler came to power because Germany was in economic chaos and he offered the Germans hope.

Hitler was good as long as you weren't a Jew, Gay, a Gypsie, Mentally handicapped, communist or belonged to any other group that fell out of disfavor with the local SS.

Without Guns, all of our other rights become government revocable privileges.

Many on the left don't like the Patriot act. Imagine how much worse the Patriot act could be if we were a gun free society.

The biggest problem for us as gun owners is that we defend gun rights.

You never win a war fighting defense, you win wars by going on offense and hitting your opponents at their weakess links.

If elected officials find that after elections we are always on their case if they support gun control, that they always have an opponent in the primaries because of their support for gun control, that they are getting heat from their political supporters because of gun control, they will soon want to avoid gun control like the plague.

Next election cycle we need to target someone in their own primaries, and really make it a super expensive primary for them.

Sure they may win their primary, but if it costs them alot of money, it gets noticed.

Imagine if Rep McCarthy had to spend a few million in the Dem primary because she was accused of being ineffective since she alienated the Congress and as such, it made her ineffective to serve the needs of her congressional district.

Nicki

 

[mljdeckard]

Skipping the second two pages of comments,

Absolutely we hurt ourselves if we don't stand together. The antis would love for us to split ourselves into splinter groups, it would make it easier to defeat us. All gun owners must stand up for the rights of ALL other gun owners. The antis want ALL guns. Not just handguns, not just 'assualt' rifles. If you admit that you owning guns is a hobby, rather than a right, you have just admitted that your hobby is less important than eliminating gun crime.

If sportsmen want to be purists and exclude 'weapons of war', it's impossible. Every class of weapon you can imagine has been used by armies at one time or another, it's just a question of where you draw the line between sporting and unfair. Nugent petitioned the state of Michigan to let him hunt deer with a knife in a loincloth. My grandfather didn't believe in scopes, because they 'don't give the deer a chance', but at the same time, he never decided to drop back to a muzzleloader or a bow.

I won't affiliate with a party. Parties work for their own interests, not mine. At the same time, It's a shallow comfort to know that you stood up for principal by 'not voting for the least bad option' in abstinance, if you allow the bad guys to win and lose your rights in the first place. Speech rights, press rights, privacy rights, etc are always changing, being re-interpreted. But once your guns are gone, that's a bell that can't be unrung. They won't come back until the next revolution. I will ALWAYS vote in the way that has the best chance of keeping my gun rights intact. If that means backing John McCain, who makes me gumble, but is unlikely to sign any new anti-gun legislation as president, then that's better than the democratic opposition.

Or, I suppose I can just refuse to participate until they come up with the perfect candidate. Oh, that's right. He or She doesn't exist.

 

[packnrat]

if one refuses to vote....then keep you mouth shut.


no vote on election day = no voice.

 

[Apachedriver]

There have been some really thought provoking comments posted in reply to my OP. I'd like to add a few comments.

First, although I presented a very simplistic view of what an individual vote represents in relation to how the electoral process works, I am not advocating "Rock The (mindless) Vote". However, I am advocating that we all need to take action in one form or another. A vote is the simplest, most unintrusive(to our daily lives) form of action an American citizen can effect. If the individual citizen won't or doesn't care to make the time for that action, how likely is it that he/she will make time for more time consuming actions in protecting our rights, ie, emailing Representatives, candidates, write in voting, etc.

Second, while I may agree with a good portion, if not all, of what the GOA President's letter says, how he ends it advocates inaction as an answer to the pool of choices available for POTUS. I agree that the selection of POTUS is only one cog in the wheel, but it is still a cog and that wheel will run roughly if attention is not given to it. Several here have made that point with the mention of future SCOTUS appointees, potential AWB's, etc.

Not to mention that due to the harried lives of many Americans, I'm willing to bet there are quite a few that will read the first paragraph, scan the middle, and read the ending, in which case, he appears to completely advocate inaction due to dissatisfaction. IMO, poor writing technique but hey, this isn't English Composition and I sure aint (or is it ain't) a writer.

Anyway, I found the newer link to the article from GOA back in Feb08.

http://gunowners.org/op0808.htm

 

[Apachedriver]

We have the most powerful military on the planet equipped with the most powerful weapons ever created employing the most highly trained soldiers history has ever seen. This juggernaut exists for the purpose of defending the constitution and securing our borders against invasion. It doesn't do either. 20 years in one of the mightiest aircraft to ever take to the skies did not manage to keep us from sliding off the edge of that slippery sloped we've talked about for so long. I don't think it is realistic to expect an amateur diebold jockey with two minutes in the hot seat to do much better.

There is no sense in operating the war machines if they are not going to be used for their chartered purpose.

R127,
I understand what you are saying, but keep in mind that the US military is not in place to affect political changes here at home, but instead to stand ready for any "enemy, foreign or domestic" that challenges or tries to bring harm to our country. The fact that we are used in various roles around the world by the US Govt does not change our primary purpose for being.

One fact which I think makes our military so great... we strive to be in a state of constant preparedness to ultimately defend our country(read as our citizens) regardless of how or where we are used in the meantime. The time to prepare is long before a threat even comes into existence, not the moment we are attacked nor the moment after the attack.

Also, I'd like everyone to keep in mind that I do this job because it is what I choose; not to get accolades for it nor to place blame (Deavis). I do appreciate the supportive comments, and need the active support of Americans when I am abroad because I am a citizen just like you. I just chose the best manner in which I can contribute to our society.

I believe in our country. The US Govt and I may not see eye to eye on everything, but it is the representative of our people to other countries. Therefore, I choose to be, and am, prepared to enforce it's policies abroad. What those policies are,however, is up to the citizenship to actively decide.

Voting is one way to partake in those decisions.