Do you find accuracy fun?

[Trey Veston]

I was on another firearm-specific forum and a debate ensued regarding how accurate your self-defense firearm needs to be.

Disparaging comments were made towards the few people such as myself that actually test for accuracy at 25 yards and select self-defense ammo with accuracy in mind. To me, it made sense to carry a gun I was completely confident in it's ability to make a head shot at 75', even if I was incapable of such accuracy in a high-stress scenario.

But one of the insults hurled at me caused me to have an epiphany. The poster suggested that if shooting tiny groups gave me a tingle in my leg, then fine, but it didn't make a bit of difference in the real world.

Maybe, maybe not.

But it made me realize that I DO enjoy shooting as small of groups as possible.

I had just assumed that everyone else did as well.

But I realize that a lot of shooters concentrate on defense drills that emphasize speed and just "getting hits on paper" and eschew the slow fire discipline of getting as small as groups as possible.

And that makes total sense for a carry pistol and is absolutely critical for self-defense. I admit that I need to concentrate more on developing that skill to the level of my ability to make tiny slow-fire groups.

But I still get a large amount of satisfaction from making little groups.

I've re-discovered the fun of when I was a youngster shooting with friends and family when we would be at the family cabin or out camping, and collect the empty aluminum cans from the previous night's imbibing and put out a dozen or so cans on a dirt hillside at various distances and heights, then see who could hit the most cans the fastest. Might not be official self-defense drills, but it is relevant practice and completely more fun.

I guess my question for other shooters here is, do you find getting small groups and optimizing accuracy fun, or think slow-fire at a single target boring and not really important in the grand scheme of a self-defense firearm?

 

[Smokepole14]

Well I sure don’t enjoy shooting at a target and missing it. So yes I do enjoy shooting as small a group as I can. For self defense purpose I do think accuracy is the second most important thing behind reliability. It doesn’t do you any good to shoot and miss your target. As long as you can group shots within the vital section of a human size torso you should be fine, but don’t settle with it. Use that as motivation for improvement, but yes all range shooting should be fun and hitting bullseyes is the name of the game!

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I like accurate guns. However, when selecting a carry gun, accuracy isn't at the top of my priority list.

 

[Obturation]

For carry accuracy isn't #1 but it is a factor. I won't carry a gun that I can't shoot well. In these modern times I'm not sure there is an inaccurate gun , just guns that are easier to shoot well. Luckily for me my most frequently carried gun is a g30, which is very easy to shoot well for me. Minute of soup can at 20 yards? No problem.

 

[Eddietruett]

For SD, I usually find 2 or 3 rounds that a particular gun will shoot real well at 25 yards. Then I run some drills and find out if I shoot any of the loads better than others. Rarely do I find that I shoot one better than another unless there is a huge difference in recoil or point of aim. My SD guns all have fixed sights and the first thing I look for is a load that shoots to point of aim. In a SD situation, I don't want to have to be thinking does this gun shoot high or low?

 

[RA40]

I find it contrary to not have a tool that has capable consistencies when handled by a skilled user. If the user can operate at these high levels then by all means that enhances their abilities for precise situations.

 

[Old Dog]

Do you find accuracy fun?

Yes, but since I started shooting steel plates, I became much more concerned with getting effective hits on target as quickly as possible than making small groups on paper … For what I do, shooting steel is just more fun … but I do still enjoy evaluating the accuracy of new handguns and printing tiny groups. I shoot for accuracy alone, typically, and shoot steel in groups and competitively.

 

[WrongHanded]

I find accuracy satisfying.

 

[scaatylobo]

I was on another firearm-specific forum and a debate ensued regarding how accurate your self-defense firearm needs to be.

Disparaging comments were made towards the few people such as myself that actually test for accuracy at 25 yards and select self-defense ammo with accuracy in mind. To me, it made sense to carry a gun I was completely confident in it's ability to make a head shot at 75', even if I was incapable of such accuracy in a high-stress scenario.

But one of the insults hurled at me caused me to have an epiphany. The poster suggested that if shooting tiny groups gave me a tingle in my leg, then fine, but it didn't make a bit of difference in the real world.

Maybe, maybe not.

But it made me realize that I DO enjoy shooting as small of groups as possible.

I had just assumed that everyone else did as well.

But I realize that a lot of shooters concentrate on defense drills that emphasize speed and just "getting hits on paper" and eschew the slow fire discipline of getting as small as groups as possible.

And that makes total sense for a carry pistol and is absolutely critical for self-defense. I admit that I need to concentrate more on developing that skill to the level of my ability to make tiny slow-fire groups.

But I still get a large amount of satisfaction from making little groups.

I've re-discovered the fun of when I was a youngster shooting with friends and family when we would be at the family cabin or out camping, and collect the empty aluminum cans from the previous night's imbibing and put out a dozen or so cans on a dirt hillside at various distances and heights, then see who could hit the most cans the fastest. Might not be official self-defense drills, but it is relevant practice and completely more fun.

I guess my question for other shooters here is, do you find getting small groups and optimizing accuracy fun, or think slow-fire at a single target boring and not really important in the grand scheme of a self-defense firearm?

I believe it was Towsend Whelen that stated my belief too " only accurate guns are interesting ".

When I was a very young man,spray & pray were very entertaining.

The more rounds down range the better,and if I hit anything that was even more fun.

Now I tend to shoot a great deal less rounds AND try to make as small a group as possible.

O.H.C. == Only Hits Count.

On paper or to fill the pot.

 

[Hangingrock]

Yes I shot a lot of Bullseye at 25&50Yds. Now not so much anymore. I shoot mostly 10Yds and under. Shooting 25Yds self-defense, I think not!

 

[lionking]

Disparaging comments were made towards the few people such as myself that actually test for accuracy at 25 yards and select self-defense ammo with accuracy in mind.

This is the way I see it...

More than likely for self defense any self defense shot or shots would happen at 10 yards or less, and point and shoot would take over concentrated aiming. Any self defense shot at a distance farther than that there is a good chance you may be faced with legal and or civil charges and need a lawyer (even at 10 yards or closer you should have a lawyer ready also).

However there could be a scenario of taking a shot at 15 or 25 yards, like being faced with a maniac murder shooter where then you have a choice a A act out to try to save others or choice B don't act out and try to take cover and escape for self preservation which if choice B is taken then chances are you aren't going to take a shot unless you get cornered and it won't be past 10 yards at that point probably.

That said, target shooting is fun, distance is fun and challenging, why not do it also. It just makes you that much better all round.

 

[9mmepiphany]

When ever I take a new shooter/client out, regardless if they are interested in competition or defensive use, we always start with the techniques to shoot small groups. That is because the foundation of accurate shooting is trigger control and the easiest way to diagnose their shooting is their ability to put shots on top of each other. Once a shooter has a command of trigger management we can branch out into their area of interest.

I've found that shooters who poo-poo the ability to shoot small groups, do so because they don't have good trigger management skills and have rationalized to themselves that the ability to place shoots accurately isn't important in their intended use. What they fail to realize is that under stress, they will revert to their lowest level of training. When that is combined with their adrenaline dump, what was acceptable dinner plate accuracy (8") will double in size (16") which is often enough to cause a miss.

I have a shooting buddy who will sometimes bring out a co-worker, who has a CCW, who's first proclamation is, "I shot defensively." At the buzzer, his first move is to "get off the X" and then fire multiple shots at an IDPA target 3-5 yards away. Even with that limited stress exposure, he's lucky to tag the target twice out of 4-5 shots...but he looks really good doing it

 

[Hartkopf]

I try to work on everything but,

First shot on target, as quick as possible is where I spend most of my time. Almost always at 7 to 10 yards.

I do accuracy tests on new guns and slow fire fairly regularly but I’m not a bullseye shooter and I don’t enjoy it that much.

Quick draw and shoot and off the X drills are what I believe will be most important in a defensive situation so that’s what I feel good about improving.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Shooting 25Yds self-defense, I think not!

It is 20+ yards from my front door to the entrance to my kitchen...from where I might be coming from to response to noise from the door. From the gate in my wing fencing to the street...where I would have to take a trashcan...is 25 yards. Almost 30 yards if the shooter is parked on the other side of the street.

Where I worked, the lobby between two sets of entry doors, where we had security screening, was close to 40 yards.

As I posted earlier, under stress, you'll default to your lowest level of training. If you can't perform a task without pressure, it is unlikely you'll be able to under pressure

 

[PWGUNNY]

I am in the constant pursuit of bullseyes.

 

[Trey Veston]

This is the way I see it...

More than likely for self defense any self defense shot or shots would happen at 10 yards or less, and point and shoot would take over concentrated aiming. Any self defense shot at a distance farther than that there is a good chance you may be faced with legal and or civil charges and need a lawyer (even at 10 yards or closer you should have a lawyer ready also).

Unfortunately, there is absolutely no real life case or precedent or law that supports your theory.

 

[jmorris]

Sometimes accuracy can get boring but so can just blasting away.

Also depends on the toys and what quantitative measure we are using for accuracy.

For some of my handguns shooting at bottles at 15 yards at the dump is fun, for others it would be a waste of time and bottles to have fun with.

 

[WestKentucky]

Inaccurate guns are frustrating, so by default, yes, accurate guns are fun. Most fun when wierd.

 

[Pudge]

Self-defense drills may not prioritize accuracy, and that's fine, but not being able to shoot your self-defense weapon accurately is not a virtue. Shooting accurately is WAY more fun for me than failing to shoot accurately

 

[cfullgraf]

I feel that most of my quality handguns are more accurate than I am.

While I realize longer shots, greater than 25 yards, would be a necessity, the need for more careful shooting is required for reliable hits and that is not necessarily a possibility. But practice, practice, and more practice can make the longer range, more rapid fire a reasonable possibility.

I like carrying a DA/SA semi-auto but for a long time I figured the first DA shot was a "gimme" at best. I spent a year working on my DA shooting, both with a revolver and a DA/SA semi-auto. I now feel my first DA shot is an effective shot.

One should never have to apologize for shooting tight groups.

 

[film495]

I get the argument, but all practice is good practice and experience. I'm not good at 25 yards with a pistol, so - you're one up on me. I think it makes sense to practice for self defense at a faster pace at closer distances, but it is possible to have to make a longer shot with more time to take it, so - worthy for self defense IMHO. Marksmanship in and of itself used to be a more common pursuit than it is today from what I've seen.

 

[peacemaker45]

I "came of age," as a shooter, that is, really learned to shoot, in cowboy action competition, which is all about high speed on steel, at close range. When I decided to cross train in USPSA, it was a revelation. They had paper targets, with scoring rings and all, out farther than I was used to shooting a rifle. Really made me realize how sloppy my shooting had gotten.

Later I also did some cross training in Bullseye, which required another order of magnitude jump in precision.

Now, I open about every range session with the National Match Course, Bullseye style, with my Volquartsenized 22-45, just to maintain some balance.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think it makes sense to practice for self defense at a faster pace at closer distances, but it is possible to have to make a longer shot with more time to take it

While I will shoot much faster at 3-5' than I will at 7 yards, being able to place accurate shots on target at 10, 15, 20, or 25 yards really don't require a lot of additional time. When your sights recover from muzzle flip, you just press off the next round...this does require a certain level of trigger management.

If you practice shooting at speed at 25 yards, the 10, 15, and 20 yard targets become amazingly easy to shoot

Now 50 yard shots do require a little bit more patience as your sights land...because you target and your front sight are about the same size there is a bit less margin for error

 

[hemiram]

At this point and with my 63 year old eyes, if I hit center mass, I'm happy. I was never all that great at precision shooting. When I was shooting almost daily about 40 years ago, I wasn't bad, and I could point shoot as good as anyone I had seen, outside of a movie, of course. But that was a long time ago, and my back and shoulders limit my shooting as much as anything else can.

 

[kidneyboy]

If you practice shooting at speed at 25 yards, the 10, 15, and 20 yard targets become amazingly easy to shoot

This is a point that seems to have lost it's importance.

For me, being accurate with any firearm is not only fun but it's the reason for having the firearm in the first place.