Do you support ANY gun-control laws?

Do you support ANY gun-control laws?


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Can you name a single instance where a mass murderer who "hosed down a crowd" was treated anything like this by the justice system?
Can you name a single instance where a mass murderer hosed down a crowd?
 
I support laws for those that are drug, gun, domestic violence, and mental health issue related as they seem to pose the most problems in relation to gun related crimes (and the ones who tend to make law abiding gun owners look the worst).

However I am unsure of where I stand on the full auto weapons ban, its sort of a double edged sword in my opinion. By putting such a ban on them they have put out of the price range of most people, common thugs included which has it plus points, however in my opinion it can be bad as it puts them within the reach of two groups:

Those that are well off enough to afford the astronomical prices.

And the more organized of criminals (which I also fear would be the more likely to use such a weapon).

I can't help but have a certain criminal that was arrested in my old apt building in st. louis come to mind. He was a drug dealer and when the police kicked in the door of his apartment they found a bag containing 350,000 dollars (among all the drugs there) as well as 3 machine guns (one of which was an m-16). He had been doing this for years but never had gotten so much as a parking ticket, some of these thugs are capable of slipping underneath the radar and arming themselves to the teeth in a perfectly "leagal fashion".
 
If one radical group gets a few nukes, they can overthrow the government of the people by the people and for the people and be the next great tyrant
I am pretty sure that trying to overthrow the government, with or without nukes is already illegal.
 
The dispatcher then advised me she seen one of the people who was out to "get her" standing by her back window and that she had a gun pointed at their head. That was ME searching the area!
tactical error on your part? I dont mean to second guess you or anything bt why didnt you contact the caller first? Either way, I have
I have seen/experienced what a firearm in the hands of criminals can do.

I have seen/experienced what a firearm in the hand of a child can do.

I have seen/experienced what a firearm in the hands of a mentally ill person can do.
by virtue of my job as a professional firefighter.

I have had a gun pointed at me 1 time I was 19 and could not defend myself because of the age li
mit restricting my right to having a gun. The guy shot at me but missed. I was being robed after work.
Can you name a single instance where a mass murderer hosed down a crowd?
virginia tech would count wouldnt it?
 
as it puts them within the reach of two groups:
And the more organized of criminals (which I also fear would be the more likely to use such a weapon
how wrong your thinking is on this.

In Portsmouth Va there was a Store D&R arms(burned to the ground last year) A guy walked in and asked to see a real mac-11 yes they sold machine guns, it was a ploy though as he was handeling it his friends came in IIRC 5-6 people came in fondeling stuff all over the store looking at guns ect, While the clerk was distracted by the other guys the mac-11 walked right out the door. Over a corse of 4 years the gun was used in several srimes even a murder IIRC until it was captured along with a 2 bit crack dealer. So its not just hi-tech or even organized criminals that can get these.
 
Can you name a single instance where a mass murderer hosed down a crowd?

virginia tech would count wouldnt it?
I think in context you would have realized the question was related to automatic weapons which where not in play at VT.
 
How about a mini poll here?
I think this thread has run it's course.

What say ye? Yes or No

I know I was one for a 'couple' restrictions.
18 to purchase, and restricting gun rights for convicted violent sex offenders
(rapist not a guy peeing in the ally) and other violent felony offenders.
But to me, that's just common sense and as far as it needs to go. (If that far).

Barring no evidence to the contrary
I don't see where any of the current laws, or more for that matter, have taken a bite out of crime.
I come away thinking.
Why have restrictions at all if they do no good?
It's simply a waste of tax payers money and indeed is an infringement
which is in direct conflict with 2a.
I mean, I'd love to be able to purchase the same type arms LE enjoys
and would love to have a few FA tools as well.

And I have to add, I've known 14 year olds that have more maturity
and debating skills than the few Moveon.borg and Brady Bunch types have exhibited here.

I always thought a debate was to enlighten and broaden one's understanding
of an issue set.
To me, it's a win win situation... not to be right all the time,
but to come away learning something and broadening my understanding of an issue.

It's become all too common though that the other side of
issues like this, (the antis) never seem to being anything substantive to the debate
and ALWAYS end up looking foolish.
 
TexasRifleman, not after that night she didn't. People are not always born mentally ill. She drifted that way with age and her family got tired of her calling, wanting them to come over all hours of the night. Hence, the long move to Vincennes. They admitted they let her keep the firearm for comfort even though they knew she was deranged. Her family was threatened with prosecution because they did not put her in a proper facility. Its called neglect of a dependent...all gun laws aside. I didn't blame the old lady...she was terrified and thought what she was imaging was real. If I or somebody else had been killed/injured I would sincerely have hoped the county prosecutor would have prosecuted the hell out of that family. They were the irresponsible ones. This was not one of these hypothetical scenarios lacking merit being tossed around on this thread. This was real. And these scarey situations happen everyday in our country. Absent criminals, wackos, and foolish recklessness which ends in a child being killed/injured then responsible firearm owners would have a much easier time of defending ourselves. We need to shed ourselves of the loonie tune bunch which only care about themselves.

If everyone would take what is best for them out of the equation then maybe...perhaps, they can get a better understanding why guns should not be carelessly given out. I support the 2nd Amendment for those who have shown themselves to be trustworthy.
 
I think in context you would have realized the question was related to automatic weapons which where not in play at VT.
oh didnt realize it was automatic weapons, then La Bank of america would be the only one I know about, but no one died but the bad guys. Oh wait I know, but it didnt happen in this country so that wouldnt count either.
 
If everyone would take what is best for them out of the equation then maybe...perhaps, they can get a better understanding why guns should not be carelessly given out. I support the 2nd Amendment for those who have shown themselves to be trustworthy.

But you just said that in the instance you describe she HAD proven trustworthy at some point, which is how she got the gun.

They admitted they let her keep the firearm for comfort even though they knew she was deranged.

No question her family should have done something, but that's beside the point.

No gun law on earth would have stopped her from doing what she did am I correct?

You see the problem here? What you talk about are not gun laws, they are a need for society to behave in ways different than we currently do. That's probably a VERY good idea but no gun law could have stopped this from happening.

Maybe some "common sense" law requiring yearly mental health checks and mandatory registration for all guns so that their owners health can be tracked. You see the problem with that I hope.

I hope you see what I am saying. I agree with you completely that people need to be responsible, but there are limits to how much of that can be accomplished just by passing laws.

And sure, someone will come along with a story about how a gun law DID help. There's no question that sometimes they do in individual cases.

But you cannot argue for laws on an individual case basis. You have to weigh the benefit vs the infringement on law abiding citizens and the gun laws currently in existence simply don't change things in any meaningful way for the nation as a whole.
 
By the 25th page I've pretty much decided that travisb,sernv99 & ruggles are either Brady trolls or AHSA trolls. As such their minds aren't going to change & they'll simply continue to propagate their anti lies until they're banned.

we are trolls because we are have views that doesn't reflect yours.:rolleyes: When people start making statements like that you know they can't come up with any more logical and convincing arguments:)

you might as well call the NRA a troll organization as well. they share some of my views. You might as well call Ron Paul a troll as well in addition to some of the die hard pro gun conservatives in Congress. I don't recall any of them wanting to allow gangbangers or violent offenders the RKBA.

I see people getting upset over guns for felons,

felons will never get the RKBA so those folks shouldn't be getting upset:) But to think a pro-gunner would support a felon just waltzing in to a gunshop and buying anything he wants is pretty out there:rolleyes: Thank goodness organizations like the NRA and pro-gun candidates in Congress don't support this b.s. way of thinking otherwise we would have lost everything by now.
 
Eric F...because at the time we did not know she was completely nuts. She had only lived there for about (1) week.

I know you have no law enforcement training so I'll explain. It was not a tactical error on my part. And you would not have called her either. She had (1) phone and you do not ask a concerned citizen to hang up the phone when they are scared to death. You want the call 911 to be recorded...if she hangs up the recording ends. This occurred back in 1995 IIRC. Back then I did not have a cell phone and the department had restricted their use because they wanted all conversations at that time recorded for law enforcement reasons. Only real past or law enforcement really know what the job is like. If you walk around scared all the time then you should not apply for the job or quit...it is not for you.

Law enforcement answers calls for help all the time...it is easy for armchair critics to second guess anything a law enforcement does. True, law enforcement makes mistakes but to call out the swat team, a helicopter, police dogs, to answer every single disturbance call...lets get real.
 
we are trolls because we are have views that doesn't reflect yours

No, you are trolls because you are rude, post nothing but rants, and never offer any real arguments or defenses to your arguments.

You offer nothing but personal attacks and dishonesty. You fly off the handle and make false accusations, make up facts then offer no substance.

It's entirely possible you have valid points but we will never know because you cannot clearly deliver them in a manner that is civil, thought through, and defensible.

That is why you are trolls.
 
But to think a pro-gunner would support a felon just waltzing in to a gunshop and buying anything he wants is pretty out there
why would a felon go to a gun store to get a gun. They can go to a house and steeal a gun or get some drugs and trtade it for a already stolen gun. So paper work does not stop a felon from getting a gun. It has nothing to do with a progunner being in favor of a felon buying a gun from a gun store.
When people start making statements like that you know they can't come up with any more logical and convincing arguments
can you come up with any gooe gun law that works against crime? As texasrifelman has asked?
 
We're going in circles to no good end, and any rational discussion that could have occured has already done so. That's the sign that it's time to close this one down.

Thanks to those of y'all that brought data and reasoned speech to the table from all the differing viewpoints. A pox upon those of you who did not. :)
 
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