Does anyone have plans for a walk-in gun vault?

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Suggestions? Sure. If you want an inspection & assessment of your property, somebody who will work with your architect or builder, find an ALOA locksmith who specializes in safe & vault sales & installations. There should be at least one in any moderately sized urban area. Tell him what you require & desire & negotiate a consultation fee up front.

I, unless you are either in the immediate area or willing to pay travel costs, won't be able to do the property evaluation. However, I would be willing to provide a list of considerations & advise on your project as it progresses.
PM me if that's of interest to you.

I recently got a line on a full bank vault door. I have not yet laid the mark one eyeball on it. But, if you want the kind of door you see in the movies, the kind that's measured in tons, time locks, all the whoopee-ding, let me know. This is the kind of thing that either won't last long at all, or I might have till the end of time, you never can tell.

900F

 

[Grayrider]

Full bank vault door= $3300 or so installed. Not that I have any experience with that sort of thing....



Call around your area and find companies that do bank construction. They will have what they call a bank grade "fire proof door". As I understood it this is a door not UL listed as burglar proof for banks, but way over-kill for home vault use. Banks use these doors for their document storage areas. To get UL listed as burglar proof for a bank it has to be professional safe-cracker resistant to a certain standard far beyond what a home user typically needs.

The door can be installed in any rough concrete opening that is of certain spec dimensions. I don't recall them off my head. Essentially you just need a concrete wall with the right hole in it. They can wheel in the door and mount it. The weight is around 1000lbs. I suggest you look into perhaps building a cellar-like room off your basement, or walling in a room within its existing perimeter as suggested by some above. Note that as others have said, if the door is way tougher than the walls the bad guys will just breach the walls.

GR

 

[CB900F]

Grayrider;

I don't think Diebold will consider $3,300.00 as an adequate down payment for your door.

900F

 

[Grayrider]

Well there are all kinds of doors. I found some pretty pricey ones too...we have to do what we can afford. One company started at $12,000. I decided I would pass.

GR

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Just came into two bank doors. One F.D.I.C. cash vault door & the other is a bank documents room door. Both Moslers.

See my thread in Accessories for more info.

900F

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Both doors are sold.

900F

 

[Highland Ranger]

Some good ideas. I am about to build a new house and have asked the architect to place a 10x10 vault in the basement off my reloading room. We get our first set of plans back tomorrow night.

COnsider putting the vault OUTSIDE the footprint of the building perhaps connectected by a tunnel from the basement. This would take care of a lot of your house falling on the safe and water problems.

If you have the $$$ - have them build a long narrow bunker - call it a bowling alley on the prints.

You can call it a shooting range after the contractor leaves.

If you go this route - buy the NRA source book on range design so you get the ventilation and such correct.

You can hide the access to it later - recommend you do that yourself as when more than one person knows a secret - it isn't one anymore.

 

[Yooper]

A walk-in safe is a good idea, the problem is expense. Even after you've shelled out for the construction, there's all those empty spaces to fill...

 

[Byron Quick]

pauli,,

You may think that hurricanes are not a concern where you live. I'll agree there hasn't been a bad one hit the area in a long while.

However, some points to consider:

Tropical storms struck north of you during the current season.

Consider what Hurricane Hugo did to Charlotte, NC which is at least a hundred miles to the west of your latitude.

Email the National Hurricane Center. Ask them if a Category 5 hurricane could make initial landfall in the Washington, D.C. area. Ask what the damage would be.

A good case can be made for storm shelters anywhere on the eastern seaboard to the east of the mountains and even within the mountains...ask the people of Charlotte.

 

[imas]

Steel reinforced concrete is best for the walls but that can be expensive and difficult.

Concrete blocks would do fine. I would use steel framing around the outside of the safe and put up firewall insulation. Then cover that with 2 layers of 3/4 in drywall. (two layers of drywall is considered a 2hour fire wall I believe)

If you have the head room I would put in a concrete ceiling.

Get a nice dehumidifier system for it and you should be all set. Check with FEMA for ideas. They have diagrams for tornado shelters.

I also am renovating an old house and have plans for a walk in.

Here is a link to Liberty's Vault door http://www.libertysafe.com/Safe_Vault Door.lasso

 

[CB900F]

Fella's, IMAS in particular;

Two layers of 3/4" drywall is not, repeat NOT, 2 hour fire protection. Drywall, sheetrock, firerock, call it any name you wish, gypsum wall board is a good flame barrier and that's IT. The stuff does not have sufficient mass, density, to be a good heat sink. It's pretty third-rate protection, and that's not just my opinion, that's established fact. By all means, query Underwriter's Labs if you don't, won't, or can't believe me.

Manganese steel is excellent protection, but not practical for the average homeowner. None of the steels are practical for the average Joe. However, concrete is very good thermal insulation & is capable of being used by anybody who has the will to do so. About 2.5" of good concrete will give the 2 hour fire protection you're looking for.

Keep in mind, I'm using U.L. standards to guesstimate the thickness. Most of the 'safe' manufacturer's you're familiar with are using a FAR lesser standard to qualify their tin boxes as fire protective. You not only get what you pay for, you also get what you're willing to work for. In other words, if you really do want fire protection & want to do it yourself, the sweat investment is going to be higher with concrete. The results, if the work is done correctly, will be worth it.

TANSTAASFL

900F

 

[SDAL]

Why not build a safe house, if you are starting from scratch. Check this site out. http://www.monolithicdome.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html This house should take a beating.

 

[Trigger]

Actually drywall is great for fire protections. Thats what is in all fire safes.

The reason is that the raw material in gypsum is CaSO4 2H2O. As the chemical formula shows, gypsum contains chemically combined water. When gypsum drywall panels are exposed to fire, the heat converts a portion of the combined water to steam. The heat energy that converts the water to steam is used up, keeping the opposite side of the gypsum panel cool as long as there is water left in the gypsum, or until the panel is breached. In the case of regular gypsum panels, as the water is driven off by heat, the reduction of volume within the gypsum causes cracks to form, eventually causing the gypsum panel to fail.

There is a 2 hour fire rating with drywall using 2x4 studs spaces 16" oc and 2 layers of 5/8" drywall. It's the UL design U301.

But like mentioned, it doesn't offer any security protection. Just fire protection.

ps. I know this first hand since I have an intimate knowledge of these systems due to my employment.

 

[MeekandMild]

Steel reinforced concrete is best for the walls but that can be expensive and difficult.

There is a proboem with anything concrete. It tends to absrob moisture from outside and release it inside. Plus in any room sized vault there will be the problem with people sized cirtters going inside and breathing and sweating water which will then condense.


So a primary consideration is some sort of ventillation and dehumidification system.

 

[CB900F]

Trigger;

Actually, drywall is not used in all firesafes. The better ones usually use concrete. As I said before, drywall is a good flame barrier. As a heat protective insulator though, it's inferior. The spec you're referencing uses the considerable airspace as the insulator, not the drywall. You are correct in that no physical security is provided by drywall.

As far as the water contained in drywall is concerned, in firearms storage, it's not considered to be a good thing. True, it converts to water vapor & dissipates the heat energy in doing so. But, it tends to condense on the firearms as things cool, & then proceeds to make rust. The concrete insulated safes perforce must have an inner barrier, or form, for the pour. I can't speak for all safes insulating with concrete, but ours use steel for the inner containment. A continuous barrier of steel. No gaps, no problem.

I, too, do this for a living.

900F