Does cold blue stink or do I ?

[Snowdog]

A friend of mine picked up a Winchester 94 .30-30 (manufactured in '71 according to the serial numbers) for $120 that was mechanically sound, but had a rough exterior. There was surface rust here and there, with light pitting on the side plate. I told him if he was willing to let me practice my refinishing skills (I don't have any, thus the need to practice) I would be more than happy do it for free.

I sanded the stock and applied tung oil, which brought out a beautiful tiger-stripe pattern.

Success!

After the stock, I got to work on the surface rust and pits by buffing it out with a felt wheel and polishing compound. Finally, I tried to apply the blue (Birchwood Casey).

First off, the blue wasn't even... dark in some places and lighter in others. I minimized this by using a fine pad of steel wool. However, it's still blotchy.

Second, the crap started coming off after applying oil.

I've followed the instructions to the letter; never cutting a corner.
I even went as far as removing the blue with Birchwood Casey blue and rust remover, thoroughly cleaning the surface and repeating the process... it still looks horrible.

So, it cold blue generally this difficult to work with (results wise) or I'm I just a screw-up?

If it is likely the product, what else can I use to get a decent deep blue? How are firearms blued at the factory and is that something I can do myself? I refuse to hand back his rifle while looking like this!

Thanks in advance!

 

[SLCDave]

Blue Wonder Gun Blue is supposed to be pretty good stuff, but I've never tried it myself...

 

[Titus]

I've used the B-C cold blue in the past and the results weren't too pretty nor too durable. I've done hot water bluing with Dicropan IM, and it wasn't much more difficult (course, I was single then) and was much better (being a hot bluing).

Some Winchester 94s don't really take bluing, over sn:2700000 I think, but I don't know how far back that goes.

 

[870]

I think it depends where your nose is!

870

 

[JeffC]

I've been using OxphoBlue from Brownells, it has a mild odor to it. Recently I had a part I wanted to cold blue but the Oxpho wouldn't color the metal so I bought a bottle of B C Super Blue..... that stuff really stinks!

It wouldn't color either because I found out the part was stainless

Did y'all know the gas cylinders on Garands were stainless? I didn't...

 

[Kruzr]

I've found "cold blue" to work much better on a hot surface. After making sure you've degreased/deoiled the surface, heat it with a hair dryer until its hot to the touch. Then apply the cold blue.

 

[Titus]

Check Brownells, they specify which products work with which Win 94 receivers.

 

[Edward429451]

I reblued a Fairbain-Sykes commando knife with Birchwood Casey cold blue. It came out blotchy just as you describe. OK for my purposes but iI did vow to never try it on a gun.

Multiple coats did help it some.

 

[JNewell]

What your friend has is one of the later receivers that won't blue. Winchester plates the receiver with a ferrous plating that will blue. If the integrity of the plating -- which is very, very thin, I can tell you from my own mis-experiences -- is broken, you cannot blue by any conventional method. I'm not sure you can get it re-plated, either. I think you're looking at either home or professional coating-type finishes.

 

[stans]

I have not been real impressed with Birchwood Casey cold blue either, but it must be the most commonly available in gun shops.

 

[P95Carry]

Didn't see any mention but the main ''stink factor'' is due to Selenium, which IIRC exists in part as a sulfide. .... the ''rotten eggs'' deal!

 

[mnrivrat]

Cold bluing other than touch up just plain sucks ! It is not durable and is almost impossible to get uniform.
The 94 Win. reciever is not a good candidate for rebluing period ! The best of professional hot bluer's have trouble with these for reasons stated earlier. I would use one of the spray on finishes for the reciever on the 94 and Brownell's oxi - blue is one of the better cold blues you can try on the barrel and mag tube. If you warm the parts up the cold bluing does a better job, and a little 0000 steel wool rub between coats will help with uniformity.

 

[skip]

I've not yet encountered that 94 barrel problem, but I have improved my results with Oxphoblue by degreasing my steel wool (with acetone) and then using it to apply the bluing to a hot barrel. Keep the wool wet, and keep it moving. Sometimes a barrel will need multiple coats, with carding between each.

 

[JNewell]

In case anyone is searching this in the future, the 94 problem is the receiver, not the barrel.

I have also found that warmed metal reacts better with cold bluing, and have found Oxpho the best of this bunch.

Never tried applying cold blue with steel wool -- would have assumed that it would wind up getting blued, too?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I, too, think OX-PHO Blue is the best, but I've had best results using OX-PHO blue in combination with G-96 Gun Creme, and anything else that happened to be laying around.

The secret is surface prep, polishing, and lots of thin applications. Heating the metal seems to help, too. (Supposedly "opens the pores" of the metal; I didn't think metal had pores.)

I've got an unused Blue Wonder kit, which I'll try one of these days.

In my guns this combo (O-P Blue/G-96 Creme) has proved pretty durable -- not as good as a hot blue, but surprisingly good, based on what I've always heard about cold blue. It requires a touch up on the back strap from time to time.

 

[skip]

I just remembered a tip I heard about, but haven't tried yet. Cold blue pieces seem to be rust prone if not tended to frequently. The tip was to rinse the piece in a baking soda solution after the bluing process, but before the oiling step. It's supposed to neutralize the bluing acid and prevent any further oxidation that may be precipitated by residue.

 

[JNewell]

Sounds plausible. I think most cold blues (the traditional formulas) have nitric acid in them.

On heat, I never thought about why much...just assumed it had to do with enhancing the chemical reaction. You get much, much better results browning metal when the metal is hot, so it seems logical that bluing might be similar...but I never looked into the chemistry.

 

[P95Carry]

I think the warming of metal prior to treating is simply that most reactions are accelerated as the temperature rises. I have found this also but never heat the metal much above ''touchable'' hot .. otherwise the solution can evaporate off too rapidly.

I mentioned earlier .. Selenium is usually a major ingredient .. sometimes I think as Selenius acid. Not sure about Nitric ... somehow doubt it unless at very low dilution.

 

[skip]

A friend of mine who used to build guns, would heat his barrels with a propane torch. If they "sweated" at all, he would degrease them with lacquer thinner. He said for most barrels he would have to do this 4 or 5 times.

I haven't tried that yet, because I don't like the idea of lacquer thinner, a propane torch, and me being in the same room at the same time.

 

[1911Tuner]

Cold Blue

I've had very good results with Brownells 4340 creme and doing it like this:

Degrease the part with brake cleaner and allow to air-dry. Degrease again with denatured alcohol to remove the brake cleaner residue.

Heat the part in an oven long enough to evaporate any moisture left in the pores of the steel.

While the part is still hot...a little too hot to hald...apply the bluing in a heavy coat with a piece of green Scotch-Brite, and work it in. Use a little pressure, as though you were trying to polish the part. Keep it heavy, and allow it to sit on the part for a minute or two. Wipe with a dry shop towel, and repeat. Rinse thoroughly in cold water and stick it back in the oven until it's hot again...allow enough time for it to get hot all the way through.

Drench the hot part in oil. Hoppe's Gun Oil will do...the stuff in the orange bottle...and let the heavily oiled part come to room temp. Wipe off the excess. Oil lightly and lay the part aside overnight.

I've blued whole slides that still had a little of the original bluing on them, and have had very good results. The process on a gray parkerized slide
results in a deep matte black that is fairly durable, and holds oil well.

Luck!

Tuner